Like many students, Amanda started her college path doing something she loved: playing her clarinet. After some time in college, she realized that even though she loved music, she didn’t necessarily want that to be her career path. Once she transferred schools, she took advantage of an opportunity to speak to multiple professionals in a field she was interested in to help guide her decisions to a new major. Technology and the cybersecurity landscape have changed significantly in the years since Amanda was in college, so she has been very proactive in learning and collecting valuable professional experiences along her path. Through it all, Amanda has invested time in a valuable professional organization that positively contributes not only to her community, but to her own professional experience. Don’t miss this valuable conversation about Amanda’s journey as a fourth generation Mexican American from Texas to working in cybersecurity for a dream technology company on the west coast.
Like many students, Amanda started her college path doing something she loved: playing her clarinet. After some time in college, she realized that even though she loved music, she didn’t necessarily want that to be her career path. Once she transferred schools, she took advantage of an opportunity to speak to multiple professionals in a field she was interested in to help guide her decisions to a new major. Technology and the cybersecurity landscape have changed significantly in the years since Amanda was in college, so she has been very proactive in learning and collecting valuable professional experiences along her path. Through it all, Amanda has invested time in a valuable professional organization that positively contributes not only to her community, but to her own professional experience. Don’t miss this valuable conversation about Amanda’s journey as a fourth generation Mexican American from Texas to working in cybersecurity for a dream technology company on the west coast.
Thank you for joining us today on Paths in Progress. I'm your host, Carrie Young. On this podcast, people in a variety of career fields, talk about their journey from choosing their college, deciding which majors and minors to pursue, their first jobs out of college, and all of the hurdles, detours and victories along their path through today. Our goal is to help students hear about a variety of exciting opportunities out there and understand what day-to-day life is like in these careers. I hope you enjoy and learn from our story today. Thanks for listening. Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We are here today with Amanda Mendieta. She is a cybersecurity professional at a big tech company. She's also the president of the San Francisco Bay Chapter of the Association of Latino Professionals for America. She has her Bachelor of Business Administration in Management Information Systems. Amanda, thanks so much for joining us today.
Amanda:Thanks for having me, Carrie.
Carrie:I'm so happy you're here. Can you please take us back to your high school years and tell us a little bit about what you were thinking as you were looking for colleges and deciding what to major in and like any ideas you had for yourself with your career path?
Amanda:Of course. So initially when I was thinking about college, my parents actually did not graduate from college, so it was something that was kind of new for me. And I didn't have a lot of initial ideas of what I wanted to do, but I was highly involved with my high school band and it was something that I was good at and something that was really fun for me. And so I really invested in that in high school and that was my ticket to being able to go to college. Growing up when I was in high school, I did All state Band for I believe, three years in a row. And so it just seemed like at the time that it was gonna be a really promising future for me. And it also helped me play with the idea of getting a college education.
Carrie:Yeah. I think that's where a lot of people start, right? You have something that you're good at or something that you love and you can sometimes that like you said you can be your ticket to college. Sometimes people even do that if they know their future's not gonna be in that, like athletes, right? There's a lot of people who you use their athleticism for college scholarship or their college experience, even though they know, you know, I'm not gonna be a professional volleyball player, or whatever it is, right? But that can really be a huge part of your college experience, whether you're looking at that for your future or you're not.
Amanda:Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a lot of pressure on young people, very early on to make a decision that's gonna impact the rest of your life. Yeah. And so I think it's really common to feel uh, hopefully not too much backed into a corner, but definitely a little pressure of, you know, this is an important decision that can impact the rest of your life. And so choose now, choose quickly. And I think like the easiest thing to do when you're in that position is just to gravitate what you like and what you're good at.
Carrie:Yeah. Absolutely. So how did you approach your college search? Were you thinking about it primarily with music in mind?
Amanda:Definitely primarily with music in mind. I think for me, at the beginning, I was a little lost of exactly what I wanted. And also I think, for most of us, especially when you're thinking about music, the media tends to influence. At the time, I remember like movies, like for example, like Save the Last Dance or like Drumline or things like that where people would go to conservatories or Julliard. And so in my head, you know, as a dream, I thought those were the only options for a little while. But being from a Latino household, I am fourth generation Mexican American, and it's not very common or encouraged, especially for like young Latino women to leave the nest and go very far. So it limited my options a little more than some people who are perhaps like not in that community. And so I did also feel these options of whatever my socioeconomic status could get me as well. But I think it ended up being a blessing in disguise. I researched different organizations that were close to me. And so my first school that I actually attended was in Dallas, Texas, and I went to Southern Methodist University for my first year of college.
Carrie:And I just wanna bring out a point that you brought up about staying close to home for school, because I think that's something a lot of people experience for a variety of reasons, right? Sometimes it's strictly financially. Sometimes there's other family reasons. It could be that you have a job you that you wanna keep while you're in school. It could be that you wanna stay close to somebody in particular, for health reasons. There's so many reasons. But just to be an encouragement to students, even if you can't go to far away to some dream school, like you were mentioning, you like Julliard or some conservatory. Students: you can be successful no matter where you begin. You know, whether that is the community college down the street from where you live or whether you're going across the country or across the world, in state, out of state, whatever it is. Like really there is so much that you can do regardless of where you're enrolled to make sure that you're successful from any point.
Amanda:Most definitely. And I think, and I'm sure we'll get into this eventually, but I think there's also certain opportunities like that. First, a lot of people, especially nowadays, there's this dream of traveling or like doing things abroad and it doesn't always have to happen right now, but just because that isn't something you experience when in your younger life doesn't mean you never will.
Carrie:Absolutely. So you ended up at S M U and how did your experience begin when you enrolled there?
Amanda:So it was interesting. I remember being there and it's still not feeling a hundred percent dedicated to my music career. Like I think getting to school and it becoming something that you're basically training yourself to go out and make a living for. For me personally, it sort of changed the game. It changed how it made me feel about my practice. It changed how I felt in regards to like my academia, and it just didn't feel the same for me. And I am probably a little more of an emotionally driven person when it comes to like what I like to do on day-to-day basis. I like to enjoy what I'm doing, like most people. Yeah. And so, that pressure and that kind of like changing something I love into something that I'm supposed to be programmed to make money for, it just kind of impacted how I saw it. But I do remember feeling a little bit like pigeonholed and like this expectation was put upon me, be that because I was really good at it, why would I waste my talent mm-hmm. So I did experience, a little bit of, challenge with that. Is this the right decision? Is this really what I wanna dedicate my life to? Kind of those questions. And so I do admit, like going into my first year of school, that was really a little difficult for me. And also, you know, being away from my friends and my family for the first time in my life. There was a lot of challenges, but I think it helped me grow and like learn a lot about myself and kind of start that process of is this really what I wanna do and should I really feel so guilty about questioning that within myself?
Carrie:Yeah, I think that is such a common struggle with artists in particular. And also I think athletes fall into this category as well, especially when so many people who are athletes or artists have been doing that thing for so long. For some people they started as a young child, you know, some people started middle school, high school, whenever you start it, I think being a musician, being an actor, a dancer, a visual artist or an athlete, it's so much a part of your identity, you know, because people are like, oh, what do you do? And a lot of times the first thing you say, is whatever your art or your sport is, right? To feel like you go into college doing that thing, the people who question that, there's just this extra layer of struggle trying to figure out, you know, is this what I want my degree to be in? Because even if you change your major to something else, you're still a musician or you're still an artist, or you're still a runner, or whatever it is, right? Yeah. Doesn't change that about who you are.
Amanda:I think like, especially with these types of practices that people have that are a little more, not necessarily, you know, building the economy per se, but it's more of these like joyful things you choose to do with your life that just make you feel alive. But the thing is, is it becomes a part of your identity. And so then it's sort of this like sunk cost fallacy where people feel so invested and like it's part of who they are, and it's like, can I really give that up? But the is are you really giving it up is the question. Exactly. And I think like the more you grow and the more you learn, you're like, I'm not sacrificing my identity. I'm just like segueing and pivoting into something that makes more sense for me financially and for me from a career aspirational perspective.
Carrie:Yeah, like just because your degree doesn't have music or art or theater or your sport on, right? It doesn't mean that you're no longer that person. It just means your degree is in something else, but that part of your identity is still there.
Amanda:A hundred percent. And I think most musicians would agree, like once you're a musician, you're always a musician.
Carrie:Yeah, absolutely. So we mentioned in the beginning that you have a bachelor's in business administration. So can you walk us through how you began in music at S M U and then what happened after that and what did your path look like?
Amanda:Sure. So I actually ended up transferring to the University of Houston for multiple reasons, and honestly the main reason being financial need. And so I transferred when I was a sophomore in college and I continued my music performance and music education degrees at the University of Houston. I was still having those kind of internal conflicts of figuring out like, who am I, who is Amanda? What do I really wanna do with my life? But I did continue with my music education. The more time went on, the more I opened up about these thoughts and feelings to other musicians and other friends. I got some advice and I remember advice that I got from a fellow U of H student. Apparently her private lesson teacher had told her, music especially is one of those career paths you take because you can't fathom doing anything else with your life. Because with that career path, there's a lot of sacrifice. And for some people who maybe aren't quite there with their love and passion for it, might feel like it's not worth it. And I think that goes along with anything in life. I think there's people who will, you know, pursue being a doctor that for them it's just not worth it. The money's not worth it. But that was a question I had never really asked myself and never really thought about like, can I really think of doing nothing else for something that requires a lot of work, a lot of discipline, a lot of sacrifice. And so I made a really difficult decision to explore other career paths. And that's how I ended up thinking, you know, I think I really wanna explore business. I remember my best friend from elementary school, she was doing international business at UT. I just remember having high level conversations with her and not really knowing exactly like what a career path I would go down towards business. But I was like, that sounds general, but interestingly enough, let me see what that's about.
Carrie:And it's so important to have those conversations, like whoever your person is or your people are, because I think especially like this identity crisis piece we were talking about before, and if you feel, you know, kind of the guilt you described or feel like the questioning yourself about it, it's important to find the people you trust to have those conversations with. If nothing else, it just helps you hash it out, right? With your mm-hmm. Sometimes with yourself and you can even make, you know, people make pro and con list, people journal about it. There's all different kinds of things. I think sometimes students are afraid to talk to their parents if they feel like there's already been that initial investment, right? And they're scared that their parents are gonna think that they've invested a particular amount that's quote, unquote wasted. Even though we know that's not true. But those can be scary conversations if you have those feelings of guilt. But this is your life. And if you're already having doubts about that at 19, 20 years old. Mm-hmm. you know, they're not gonna magically go away, right? So it's important to explore those conversations and to get ideas and feedback from other people and just really think through that for yourself, to land in the place where you feel like is the most comfortable for you. You know, none of us can predict 20 years down the road, but if you find the spot that's feels like is the best fit for you at that time, you wanna do as much as you can to get to that place.
Amanda:Yeah, definitely. And I think, you know, I was pretty fortunate. My parents were actually relatively supportive of my change, and my parents actually were supportive throughout the entire time. I'll be very honest. Even when I wanted to go into music, I think they were really proud of my talent and the things that I like to do. I do feel there's probably a lot of challenge when you don't have parents that are like that. But I totally agree with your sentiment. It's your life, it's your path. And a lot of my college was also paid for by myself, and I'm still paying for loans, so I had a little more control over it. So I could totally understand the challenges and difficulties that come with that. I think for the most part, the advice I would give there is to do obviously how ever far you want to go, preserving that relationship, but at the same time, thinking of yourself because the worst person you can resent in your life is yourself.
Carrie:So you said you were gonna be interested in business. Did you start just taking a few classes or did you make like a solid leap to just change your major and jump right in? Like what was that transition process for you?
Amanda:Yeah, so the way the business school works, you essentially take a couple of very high level generic classes at first, and there were many different career paths that I could have chosen. And I remember a lot of people kind of assuming that I would do something artsy, something adjacent to what I had learned in music and I kind of wanted to start all over. I was like, no, I don't wanna do what people expect. Like I wanna see what is interesting and challenging. And so I actually connected, I had mentioned her earlier. My best friend from elementary school, her dad at the time, he was a CIO, a chief Information Officer for a law firm downtown. I remember talking to her kind of about a tech and talking to her dad. And her dad said, you know what? Why don't I have like a pseudo bring my daughter to work day? And you can talk to people and ask questions and find out what it's like to work in tech and tech services. And so it was really amazing. You know, he brought me in and it was like all these opportunities for mentorship, all because I asked. I asked questions and I showed interest. And I remember he set up multiple meetings with multiple people that I just sat there and kind of interviewed them and asked them about opportunities. Asked them about the educational criteria that I should look for to go down that path. I actually don't remember being scared. I remember being really excited and also like, oh my, this is a new beginning and new beginnings for me personally are really exciting. And so it was something that I was like still to this day very grateful for'cause I'm not sure, without that experience, I would've been as sure of my choice and I, I would've been as confident.'cause I do remember one of the conversations with one of his employees. And you know me, Carrie, like, I really love talking to people. I love connecting with people and learning about people. And I remember that specific employee telling me, giving me a little reassurance that he didn't know I needed.'cause at the end of the day, I I was giving up something I had invested 13 years of my life, which was over half my life at that time. I remember him saying, there's something about you that you just can't teach. And it's that ability to connect, that ability to you know, listen and just really have those soft skills that either for some people you have it or you don't. And I just remember it making me feel, and these were all new things that you don't know until you're in that situation. And I was a kid, I was so young at the time. I, I just remember feeling a little more confident, like, okay, maybe I can do this. Maybe like this research that I'm doing, this investment that I'm doing this new possible new life path, not even only career paths, a new life path, maybe it'll all be okay.
Carrie:Yeah. Well, and it's so helpful to have another person identify something in you that's difficult to do on your own, right? Not just from being at that age, but having the other person's life experience and professional experience. You know, identify those things in you that will help you along the path. And then to help you become aware of those and how that can help you advance, or how it can help you fit into certain spaces. I mean, what a gift that is to have somebody say those things to you at that age.
Amanda:Definitely. I mean, I think that's something I've learned, especially when it comes to career, that it's harder to get the older you get, but I think everyone kind of craves that validation a little bit. Shockingly, it's a lot easier to give yourself personal validation, but I think, you know, people coming from school, you're so used to getting that gold star. And so in that moment it felt like a little bit of a gold star that I was like, man, I really needed this right now. And I'm really glad I kind of put myself out there and like opened myself up and I was vulnerable and expressed, I need coaching, I need mentorship, like, help me please. And so I was really glad I did that'cause I, I realized not everyone is always willing to do that.
Carrie:Yeah. So did that experience help you move forward as far as either selecting a major or starting to see a particular career path that you wanted to pursue? Like what did you start to kind of piece together or envision for yourself?
Amanda:Oh Definitely, I think the next day I decided to go just like all in on the Management Information System degree. I think literally to the day before that I was like, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do with my life? I'm already like, almost more than halfway, I was more than halfway done with school. I was changing my major as a junior, and I think it was my second semester as a junior, too. And so I did end up going to school for one additional year. But I did feel like relief and excitement and I felt that confidence I needed like, okay, this is what I'm gonna commit to. This is what I can do. I'm ready. And so I just kind of hit the ground running honestly.
Carrie:So did you have any particular courses or internships or experiences during undergrad that helped confirm for you that this was the right decision, you know, that you made the right choice and kind of got you excited about moving forward?
Amanda:Yeah, this is gonna sound kind of as funny, I guess, too. The degree I chose, and I hope this doesn't sound bad, but it shouldn't because I was so used to like the vibes in the music school.'cause I think like from a societal perspective, you know, in the media, whatever, like people have always viewed people in band as like band nerds and things like that. And I say that in the most playful way of like, I identify with that. Right. I definitely have always identified with those kind of nerdy, misfit, like smart, like really dedicated. Like, you find these different special things that interest you and you learn everything about it, like those kind of vibes. And so MIS was really similar to that. It felt like the atmosphere was very adjacent even though it maybe wasn't as like creative per se, even though it is in its own way. So I think I did really just see myself and the people that were in that career path and it made me feel more like I belong there, more accepted. That helped a lot. So I think first and foremost, I saw the people and I felt like I related to them. That was really important to me. Like, can I be around people in this industry? And it does this work for me. And then, the courses that I took, I remember taking some scripting classes and some coding classes and some architecture design classes. For me, and this is how I was in music too, like the pieces that interested me the most are the ones that I had to go and lock myself in a practice room and practice for like eight hours. Because it was a challenge. It was something that I had to actually apply myself. I have to actually apply a lot of intellectual energy. And it was the same thing for this career path, this degree plan. It didn't come easy to me and because of that, it made me want to try harder. It made me want to work harder for it. And so that was something else I did in the courses that I started taking for programming. I was like, oh, this isn't two plus two. Like this is something, yeah, that I actually have to apply a lot of mental energy and that sort of drew me into it more.
Carrie:Well, I think that's such a great point for students to hear because there is that fine line you have to be able to identify between what is a challenge and that you can still meet the challenge and be successful versus something that is not where you should be Right, right. Because there's unfortunately, there's a lot of students out there who either are getting parental pressure, societal pressure, or even putting pressure on their selves to go to med school or to be an engineer or something, but they keep failing pre-calc or something. You know, like a major roadblock that will deny them access to that thing. Right. And so, It's good to identify, you know, like, okay, maybe this isn't for me, or, you know, this is really challenging and like you said, I have to lock myself in a room for eight hours and really work hard at it, but I can still do it. Right. Right. Because I think that's a very common situation a lot of students find themselves in and it's so important to be able to distinguish that and to be able to identify which situation you're in.
Amanda:Yeah, and I mean, I think there's this huge culture, especially in this country, of if you end something or change to something, that means you failed. And I think we apply that to everything. We apply that to relationships, we apply that to career. Yeah. And I think that's more of like an internal philosophy. And like for me, I've never really seen life that way. I don't think that just because a relationship lasts a certain amount of time that it's a failure because it didn't last forever. And that's the same with career, that's the same with academia for me personally. And I think that's something you have to ask yourself and think about what your personal philosophy is. But for me, I think we're here to experience and to like learn and when that has happened, if you feel like doing something else, I think everyone should have their own autonomy and their own empowerment to do so.
Carrie:Yeah. Absolutely. Did you experience any internships during your undergrad?
Amanda:Yes, so I experienced a couple, but also like when I was in undergrad, I definitely was probably an anomaly. Maybe not so much at U of H but I worked a lot. So I remember working, if you probably remember, at that Starbucks in the Galleria. And so it's, I think it's one of the biggest Starbucks in the south, if not the biggest, and it was 24 hours. And so that was back when I could do that. I could never do that at this stage. And they tell you like you get more tired and I never believed it. Now it is true. Unfortunately, kids. But back then, you know, I was like, this machine. I would work at Starbucks from 9:00 PM to 3:00 AM and then I would go home and I would sleep and I would have my internship from 8:00 AM to like 2:00 PM Wow. And so it was rough. It was really rough. I think like for at least a year or two, I was only. Sleeping like four hours a night on average. And so I wouldn't recommend that, but I remember feeling really determined to graduate so I could make a decent salary and not have to do things like that. But I got really lucky and I signed on for this internship that paid a little bit above minimum wage and so did Starbucks. So I felt lucky, honestly, I'm like, I'm making above minimum wage, like this is great. And I was able to pay for my apartment. I was able to get something on my resume. For that internship, for the most part, I was doing very high level quality assurance work for end user testing. And so that was something that I could put on my resume. But also there was a lot of great things I could put on my resume from working at Starbucks, too. And so I was trying to work at these places where I adopted skills that I could strategically apply them to a career.
Carrie:Absolutely. Could you talk a little bit about where your internship was and how you went about obtaining that internship?'cause I think there's a lot of students out there particularly who are starting out in college. Yeah. And they know they want an internship, but they may not really know where to start. Just hearing some examples is helpful.
Amanda:Sure. So I think most universities, and at least we have this at the University of Houston, they'll have some sort of internal portal or career centers. And there's actually a lot of either boutique organizations or even larger organizations that they have these special relationships with these universities where they go specifically there to hire students and intern them. Most of'em are paid. I always tell people if I ever mentor them, do not accept unpaid internships because you are doing work and so you need to get paid for that. And I've to this day, never seen, at least not in tech or business, I've never seen an unpaid internship. They're always paying you something because you are doing work for them. And so I actually worked for this small boutique firm that had this relationship with U of H and they hired from our program. And it literally was, and don't get me wrong, it wasn't like super high level intensive work, but it gave us something to put on our resume and we got paid. It wasn't something super technical or super difficult, but it got me in the door. And that whole stigma of, well, you need experience to be able to work here. Well, how do I get experience unless I get my first job? That first internship gave me that.
Carrie:And for students listening who are interested in your field, which obviously we're gonna get more into this through the conversation, were there particular skills or particular pieces of your experience during undergrad that you felt like were kind of essential or you're really thankful that you had moving forward?
Amanda:That's a great question. And it might not be the answer that people want to hear, but honestly, Yeah. But honestly, things as simple as following through, things as simple as managing your time, but having a professional demeanor at all times. So a lot of that is like emotional management. Working on yourself and your maturity. Like to this day, I feel like that has helped me way more than any technical skill I have. I know they sound simple, but it's kind of shocking how that can be like the demise of a lot of people's career. Because those are things that like you can work on, like taking leadership workshops or joining like these organizations that are in your school, don't diminish those things such as being reliable, being dependable, being professional, because everything else, as long as you have confidence and as long as you're willing to put yourself out there and take additional trainings, take additional, opportunities to learn, that's always gonna be there and that's always gonna be expected of you. But like those other things of just being a really reliable adult professional, I think those should not be minimized.
Carrie:Yeah, absolutely. So for management information systems for students listening to that, what are kind of an overview of like kinds of classes that you take and then what does that field look like? If students are sitting here listening and saying, I don't even know what that means, Yeah. Could you give kind of an overview of what that means for somebody who may not know?
Amanda:Sure. To start, my degree, I'm gonna date myself a lot because in technology things, I would say one year is equivalent to five human years. And so I graduated 10 years ago, and so it's been a while. So this is gonna date me a lot, but I actually learned something called VB Script. And if there might be students who are in my field listening that they're gonna say, what is that? And so I had a professor that believed in kind of these like old school scripting languages. And we did JavaScript. We also learned, Ava, like object-oriented programming. I learned a lot of Sql, which is like a database language and we learn different kind of database structures and architectures. And we did a project management class, I recall, and I also took a lot of general business classes, accounting, marketing, finance, things like that. Those were all really interesting classes and the shocking part is I did not go into any of what I just said, and so I actually ended up in cybersecurity and back in the day we didn't have any classes that were offered for undergrad at my school for cybersecurity, which is shocking because it's like such a huge hot field now. Literally the next year when I graduated, that's when all the big data breaches happened that we remember and recall as being like, that was the start of organizations being a lot more proactive when it came to their cybersecurity capabilities. And so that's when Home Depot happened. That's when Target happened. A lot of the DDoS that were going on that were taking down data warehouses and basically disabling organizations to complete their e-commerce, that all happened about a year after I graduated. And so I think after that, that's when they were like, we need to teach these kids so we can have professionals. Mm-hmm. come out and deal with all this stuff. I do think they have a lot of classes there now for undergrad, but unfortunately when I was there, I wasn't able to take a single class. I got the opportunity to do that when I was, my first year in my internship and I actually signed onto an internship with Deloitte and Touche.
Carrie:So one big fear for students is obviously that approaching graduation time, and some people really wanna secure a job before they graduate and some people graduate without having a job yet. There's so many different types of situations people find themselves in. Yeah. But can you tell us a little bit how your transition was from finishing college and going out into the world and getting your first job?
Amanda:So I'll tell a roundabout story essentially. Before I really had too much experience, and I think this was even before the other internship that I mentioned, I went to a random career fair'cause I heard it was happening. And looking back, I realize, I have a lot of empathy for students who don't know these things because I didn't know, I showed up to a career fair where I got like a resume template probably on like indeed.com or something like that. And I just filled it out with all my music stuff.'cause that's all I knew. That's all I knew how to do. And I just knew you're supposed to go to career fair and talk to people. And I didn't know much other than that. I approached the Deloitte stand and I gave them my resume. I remember the recruiter looking at it and she asked if I would be interested in their diversity conference. And so I had no clue who they were. I had no clue what that meant, but I said, of course. Sure. And I remember going to that conference and getting there and thinking, oh, this place seems important. Like this building is really big. I had to go up to like the 40th floor. I don't think I had ever been in that high of a floor in a building before. This was just something I had never had to do or never done. I did not research at all, and at that time, I think I did have a laptop. This is again, dating myself. I remember going and thinking, wow, I should have like Googled this or something. I should have looked into this a little bit, but these are things like you don't know until someone tells you. And I realize that now, there's so many things, like now it seems so intuitive to me, but back then it was not. I was just going with the flow. I was still that type B musician and any friends or family who are listening to this, they're gonna be like, that is not Amanda at all. She's probably one of the most type A people I know. And that was something I had to transition into. I had to tweak that part of my personality in order to survive in corporate America. But I accepted an internship with them a couple years later. And luckily, luckily but also with hard work, in that internship they ended up offering me a full-time position to come back once I graduated. And so I felt really. But kind of blessed that that was my situation and I didn't have to deal with graduating without an internship. But I think like getting those internships that offer that opportunity to come back once you graduate, is truly a blessing in disguise because it gave me a, personally, it gave me a lot of just like comfort and ease knowing that I act. I had that lined up. And so that's what I actually ended up doing. And I went into Deloitte for cybersecurity consulting.
Carrie:Yeah. And that's such a great point too about internships because you never know if something else can happen when that internship's over, you know? So it's important for students to not just treat it as an internship and something that has this final date, because you never know if you work really hard, if you meet the right people, you show you know that you have strengths in certain areas, they see something in you that's a good fit there, that could turn into a long-term opportunity.
Amanda:Yeah, definitely. I think like anything in life, but specifically with your career, you never really know what this is gonna be the next step to. And so, as far as like you're able to, I think it's really important to try to put your best foot forward. Even doing that when I worked at places like Starbucks or when I was a waitress. I remember having that reputation that Amanda has a high work ethic and she always puts her best foot forward and she's always gonna try her best. And don't get me wrong, that's not every single day. You're allowed to be human, you're allowed to have off days. But for me, I think the mentality that I've adopted is like, if I'm not able to do that for a span of time, what does that mean? Where am I at? What do I need to work on internally? And that's who I've turned into of just trying to give my all.
Carrie:Yeah. With the first job you had after graduation, what were the kinds of things that you were doing?
Amanda:I actually really loved that job to this day and I really love the organization. I was working on different cybersecurity projects essentially, and so it was really fun for me'cause it was a project based and so I would have a start and an end and then I would go to a new project. Honestly my entire time there, each project was kind of different. Each project was something that was required to learn new things, adopt new skills and apply them. And so I just learned all these different capabilities under the cybersecurity framework.
Carrie:And how long were you in that position?
Amanda:I, so I started off as a consultant and then I moved up to senior consultant. And so I was at that organization for four years. And my final year there, actually I I moved to Mexico. And so I worked in Mexico for that organization as well.
Carrie:And was that something that you sought out, or how did that come about?
Amanda:Yeah, at U of H I went to a conference and it was by women executives. And I remember hearing, I think at the time it was the chief financial Officer from Marathon Oil. Talk about the one thing that she, if she could go back in time, what she would do, she would work abroad. I remember hearing that advice and thinking, I wanna do that. I need to do that. I need to figure out how I can do that. Maybe even that year, a year later, I was at this party at a partner's house from the organization and I met a woman there who was actually working in Mexico City and she was doing a program for my organization and I just sort of networked with her. I sort of knew I wanted to go to a Spanish speaking country. I wanted to go abroad and work because of my Latin heritage. I don't remember this, but I think my parents used to take me across the border. This was back before you needed a passport and just go and eat at border towns and things like that. And that's very common for Mexican Americans back in the day in the nineties. But I don't even remember that. And so I felt like this constant desire my whole life to be more connected to my heritage, more connected to my culture. But I didn't have the kind of tools and the idea of how to do that. I was constantly joining these different Latino based organizations. But for me, I was like, I wanna speak the language. I wanna be around people of where I came from. I wanna know what that feels like. And so it seemed like a perfect opportunity to do that.
Carrie:Was the work you were doing, was it different? Or how was your professional experience there? Was it different or did you just feel like you were just doing the same thing but living in a different place?
Amanda:I think the work was the same, but living in a different place was huge. I think especially like when you don't speak the language, and also you've never experienced living in that culture. It was a huge culture shock that, I mean, they even have a word for it. It was a huge culture shock. It was something I don't think I was prepared for, but I don't know if anything could have prepared me. I think the main thing to do is to have an open mind and go willing to learn and understand that even though you might know your trade, you don't know the culture, you don't know the country and you don't know better. And because everything is just different, it's not better or worse. I think like the actual culture of living there is what was the biggest learning curve for me.'cause I was also, in the time I was learning how to speak Spanish, too.
Carrie:There's a lot of people who have either lived abroad or studied abroad and that usually changes a person in some way, right? Just having that Yeah. Experience in your life. So what do you feel like were the things that really changed for you after you had that experience?
Amanda:Oh my gosh. Well, the first one might sound like a little negative or self-deprecating, but it's the truth. I was like, wow, Americans really are arrogant. Like I never had an opportunity to learn that. And I think especially in business,'cause you kind of have to check yourself sometimes. Especially in America, we kind of are programmed to believe we know best. We know this, we know that. And I never was put in a position to check myself of, oh my God, I can't believe I'm one of those people. I can't believe like I think that way. And so there was a lot of humbling experiences of understand. I think traveling does that to you in general or even just being open to different cultures. Yes, this might be what you think, this might be what works for you, but that doesn't mean it works for everyone and that's okay. And it's okay to go somewhere else and adopt their practices adopt their culture and show that respect and show that open-mindedness. And also like we're a melting pot. We all came from somewhere else. And so I think like really appreciating this is maybe what could have been for me had my family not immigrated here. So that was a huge one. And also like in the same breath also appreciating being American and the liberties that we have here. So it was kind of learning the same thing in different flavors.
Carrie:Did having that experience working abroad, did it start to change how you saw your future professionally or how you maybe saw your path? Or did it confirm things for you? Did it alter you know, that in any way for you?
Amanda:Yeah, I think it made me realize that I was almost ready to put roots down somewhere. I think before then, even when I was living in the States, I was constantly, I was just a jet setter. I think there was a year or two where I had literally did not go home very often. I would just get on another plane and go to a new city every weekend, in the United States, and I would just go back to my projects after that. And after that, being in Mexico, it was like a new start for me. It's really nice, but it's also really hard. It's really hard emotionally to kind of start up that community, start up that new job, that new place. There's just a lot of newness that is fun. But it made me realize, oh, I think I'm ready to be a little more stable. I'm ready to find somewhere to plant roots and settle down. When I was there, there was this learning curve when it came to like the language and that impacted a lot of my career of realizing there's only so much I think I wanna struggle I think I'm okay with some of it being a little easy. That did impact my mentality too of, you know, I do like being challenged. I do enjoy figuring out and solving these problems. But to an extent it is kind of nice and comforting for certain things in your life to just be easy and just be comforting.
Carrie:So how long were you there and then how did you transition away from that part of your career into the next thing?
Amanda:So I was there for a year and it was a program, so it was always set that I would come back. And so it was really easy to be an expat and kind of come back over here and integrate into my life here and my career here. And actually, it's funny'cause I knew I wanted to move when I came back here, I knew I wasn't going to live in Houston after that. I just wasn't exactly sure where. And so I had it between three cities and I basically said, Austin, New York, or San Francisco. Austin.'cause it was, I saw it as like kind of a fun city, but somewhere I knew. New York because I mean, you grow up seeing all these movies about New York and especially as a musician, that's where a lot of us think we'll end up. And then San Francisco, I had actually visited a friend here who invited me, and that was the first time I'd ever experienced San Francisco. And I just loved it. I loved the city, but I didn't have a job there or anything, but I just felt called to it. And ironically I was put on a project out here, in the Bay Area, right after coming back from Mexico. And so it also gave me an opportunity to kind of see what it was like living here and what that was, would be like for me. And so that was really helpful. I think the whole program and kind of then like at least serendipitously getting that opportunity to come live out here in the Bay area really helped me figure out what was next for me.
Carrie:So after you were assigned to that project, did it make you want to move there? What did you do next?
Amanda:It did and I just didn't know how. I think it was honestly, because those who know me know that I'm not easily intimidated. But that was something that did kind of intimidate me of moving here and feeling like, well, can I do it? Am I financially stable enough to be able to move here? And what does that mean? What does that look like? Because I felt like when I was living here for that project, I was staying in hotels with my company, but this would mean I financially have to support myself living in, at the time, the most expensive city in the nation. And so it was kind of scary to me honestly, but I knew that maybe I should move jobs and find something that would pay a little more to allow me to move here. And so I actually was approached on my LinkedIn profile by a Spanish bank called Santander. There. And they're globally headquartered in Spain, but they also have a US headquarter in Boston. And it just so happened that they would allow me to live on the West coast if I managed our West Coast vendors for third party risk assessments. I went ahead and took that opportunity. It was going to boost my salary quite a bit and allow me to live here. And so it was like two birds, one stone. It was a new opportunity giving me the path to be able to live here where I wanted to be as well.
Carrie:And what kinds of things were you doing in that job? What would your day kinda look like?
Amanda:Yeah, so we, a lot of organizations, so this is also public information that the way, for example, target Got Breached was from a third party vendor infiltrating their environment from a network that wasn't even part of Target. And so I think that opened a lot of organizations' eyes up so that they had to really pay attention to these vendors that they were contracting because they essentially were becoming vulnerable and opening themselves up to threat actors that could possibly target them. And you go after these little mom and pop shops and that's how you get to a big organization such as Target. And so, this bank specifically, they're one of the people who wanna make sure these kinds of things don't happen. And so essentially I would go out to our different vendors that we were contracting and paying to make sure, are they up to standards when it came to their cybersecurity capabilities.
Carrie:Was a lot of that skills that you had learned in your degree? Was a lot of it what you had learned in your jobs before that? Or how did you have the confidence and the knowledge and feel like you could go execute that work? What things did you bring with you and where did you get them from?
Amanda:I feel like most, if not all aspects of cybersecurity incorporate the ideology of risk into a lot of risk analysis, risk of assessment. For the most part, we do that in our lives constantly. People are constantly analyzing risk because there's a lot of logic to it. Like, can I cross the street right now? Will that car hit me? Yes or no? That's a really short risk analysis that you do in your head. And so I think like for a lot of it, if you have like sound logic, which I think I did based on my degree, based on the academic professional I was. But a lot of it was things I learned on the job from my career. I got really lucky that I had a lot of managers and a lot of people I worked with who would take the time and knowledge share with me and teach me and that I would do different trainings.'cause I think there was only so much I really learned in school, in all honesty. I think a lot of it was kind of like the aptitude to learn and also learning how you ingested information, learning how you retained information. I think a lot of my schooling was kind of learning about myself and less learning about the skills and tools I needed to do the jobs that I was doing.
Carrie:So how long were you in that position?
Amanda:Oh my gosh. That was my only job that I was not there for very long. So I was there less than a year. And then I actually again got approached on LinkedIn by a large tech company, which is where I work now. They contacted me and I went through the interview process and at that time I wasn't even looking for another job. And it was, to this day, the hardest interview I've ever had. I think I had like eight or nine rounds and, oh my gosh. Yeah. And it was technical. And so like, when it comes to tech, there's so many more ways to be technical than just to be a programmer. Like you can have a technical lawyer. There's a lot of specifics that you know about the technology. It was a little more of technical interviews than I was used to. At my previous organization so much, if not all of it was soft skills. And so this was like a, such a change in the game that I was used to. And I remember ordering this training and studying for like 50 hours before I accepted that interview. I made sure I was prepared, I made sure I could sound like I knew what I was talking about. And I was really fortunate that like I jumped and got that job fairly quickly. And I also felt like it was gonna allow me to establish myself in the Bay Area because I would be working for a tech firm.
Carrie:So because you said now LinkedIn twice with getting two different jobs. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of LinkedIn for you and just giving some advice to students? Because I think people, depending on what industry you're in, in particular, and also kind of where you are in life, people view LinkedIn very differently and use it for different reasons. Yeah. And I've heard some students be hesitant about LinkedIn because they feel like they don't have enough professional experience to put on there yet, you know, or they feel like, well I haven't graduated yet, so why would I be on there? So can you talk a little bit about like the importance of that?'cause clearly it's been really great for you. Yeah.
Amanda:Yeah, well I will say like I think it's a very different platform compared to most social media that we're used to. And because I can understand the sentiment of like, well, this doesn't apply to me, I'm a student. But at the same time, I think there's gonna be a huge learning curve if you wait until you're graduated to use it and see what is on there and what can be useful. And I actually receive a lot of connection requests from students. And I think that that's like another opportunity you have to network with professionals. And so not only is it like a page to establish your brand and establish who you are and what you're looking for is also that avenue,'cause you're not gonna go up to a professional and ask them to connect on Instagram. At least you shouldn't do that. Like, that's right. Not, that's not what you should be doing. And so I think like it allows you to have that platform to easily connect with other professionals and get your feet wet in learning what is this about, what are the opportunities that can happen. And I actually have a personal friend who is a LinkedIn influencer, and I follow her and what she does, and she, it's kind of amazing what is these like, I guess Gen Zs are able to do with these different platforms and advance themselves. And so I would definitely not discount your opportunities that you can receive from LinkedIn because so far that's where 60% of my job opportunities have came from.
Carrie:Yeah. Well, and LinkedIn also has the ability to like, follow people without being actually connected or friends with them, so to speak. Yeah, and I think it can be really a great resource for students to start following people in the industry that you're interested in. Even at particular companies or organizations that you're interested in. Because those people post things that they're thinking about or they post articles. You can follow professional organizations, you can follow publications for your industry or conferences. And there's all of these things that even if all you just did was read, which hopefully you'll be more active than that, but there's so much you can learn about the industries that you're interested in just by following different organizations and people on LinkedIn because you're seeing in real time what issues are going on and what people are talking about and what their opinions are about those things.
Amanda:Exactly. No, I completely agree. I think there's so much that you can use it for. I get this, benefit from my job is there's also something called LinkedIn learning. That might be a subscription, it might cost money, but I have taken different trainings on there and they're very well-established, accredited trainings. There's just so much you can use it for that I think not everyone even knows about. I think the earlier you start learning how to utilize it as a tool for your progression, the better.
Carrie:Yeah, absolutely. We do not work for LinkedIn. We are not getting anything. This is strictly.
Amanda:Not at all. This is our conversation. No, no. Yeah. But I could be ambassador if you wanted, but No, I don't. I, I don't. So.
Carrie:So with this new job that you got, what you were mentioning how technical it was compared to your previous position. So how did that landscape change for you professionally? Like, did you find yourself in just a totally different role and space? Were you feeling like you were constantly learning new things or what was that transition like for you and what did your days look like and what types of things were you working on?
Amanda:Yes and no. I think like when it comes to consulting work, there is that aspect of you're kind of doing something new all the time. And when it came to like my industry job, which I have now, there's a little more consistency and like at times redundancy. I think I'm just now like breaking through that ceiling though. And I'm doing something exciting and challenging and new for myself. But it took a little while, I'm not gonna lie. It took a little while to have that opportunity where I'm like, oh, this is new, this is different. I'm kind of excited doing this. When you're in a specific role, you have like, your day to day is a little more applicable to that kind of job of industry where it's like you come in, you make sure you do these tasks, and then you go home and then you come in the next day and make sure to do the same tasks. I'm starting to feel like I found my footing a little more to realize how to, you know, pick up different types of work, kind of apply myself in different ways to get different kinds of opportunities. But I think like at first, it actually was a technology that I had worked with on my previous job before for one small project I did. And so I had had exposure and experience with it, but this was now like getting into the weeds of it and really understanding it a little more. And so I work on a team where we manage the cryptography for our organization. So essentially what that means is we have infrastructure called certificate authorities, and we issue digital certificates to devices worldwide. And so that enables your device to connect to services and enables it to have encryption and authentication, which is required basically for everything we do these days because we wanna be protected over the internet.
Carrie:You said when you were approached on LinkedIn for this job, you weren't looking for it. So what kind of attracted you to pursue that once they approached you and then what do you think that they were looking at in you to bring you into what you're doing?
Amanda:Yeah. Well, I think a lot of it was the name of the company. It was kind of like what I think, especially people that went to my school would see as like kind of a dream job. I think for a lot of people where I work, this is like a dream come true. And so I was very intrigued by the organization of where it was and I wanted just that opportunity to have that on my resume. I wasn't sure exactly where it would take me next, but I knew it was gonna be a great next step for me from a compensation perspective, from a learning perspective, and having it on my resume. And so I just decided to take a risk and do it. So when I was in consulting, I had a lot of experience in different types of technology and I was honestly, I think some of it was just sheer luck, but also having my LinkedIn updated more at a granular level. And so I made sure to specify the different projects I was on at the consulting company and kind of go into detail what I did on those projects. And just luckily one of those projects I had worked on something called Public Key Infrastructure, and that's exactly the type of position they were hiring for.
Carrie:Wow. So you think sometimes keywords helped you with that a little bit?
Amanda:I definitely think so. I think there's different keywords that you can apply on LinkedIn. And that one was a little more obvious or I was like, obviously I'm gonna put this project that I worked on for a decent amount of time on my LinkedIn. But even things I would say that you're like, is this important? Is this something that really matters? Go ahead and put it on there. Because you never know what people might be searching for or what they're looking to fill their roles with.
Carrie:So you had mentioned that it was kind of funny that your current employer reached out to you because you weren't even looking for a job at that time. But now that you've been there and you're settled, is, are there other things that you're thinking about for yourself professionally that you do want to proactively go after, so to speak, for your career?
Amanda:Yeah. When I first joined this organization, it was so new and different compared to my previous organization where there was a lot of new projects and new technology and kind of that cutting edge things that you would need to learn in order to apply to the different projects. I know now that that's not as applicable to the organization I'm in. And I kind of had to learn for myself how to navigate my career and take a little more initiative as opposed to like my previous organization. It kind of just happened, like that was integrated into the career plan. But I think in industry work, which is what we call things outside of consulting, I think there was a little more initiative that I had to take and like search and really research, and put myself in these positions and the opportunities. And so there was like a little patience that needed to be applied and probably a little bit of a different perspective. So there was a lot of personal work I did on that and professional development. I think you expect how things will go and just learning your expectations might not always be what you thought they would be, but being opened and mindful and taking what you can from the different positions you take.
Carrie:Yeah. So with cybersecurity in general, for students who think they may have an interest in that industry, what are some of the great things about what you do and what you work on and the industry that you're in, that you would wanna share with students is encouragement to go down that path?
Amanda:Well, I think for me, what has like kept me in the industry too is I really like the idea that what I work on impacts and end users. And it impacts them in a way where you're helping them make sure that their data is protected, that their assets are protected. And so that's something that's always been really interesting and kind of like a passion that I've had is helping others and making sure that, you know, things are going well for people. I think finding your niche, and for some people, especially in cybersecurity, their interest is breaking things and that's valid. There are people that I've met that are reverse engineers that they just find joy and like breaking things and taking things apart. And so I think figuring out what your niche is and what makes you tick. And for me it was helping people. And so I think we're all gonna have that thing that kind of drives us and is our passion. And I think they're all valid. They're all absolutely, like that's your thing that no one can take away from you. That gets you out of bed in the morning and excites you. And when you find that thing, and it could be in cybersecurity, it could be in something else that it is this overarching theme of who you are and what's important to you, what makes you happy and what you know, fulfills you more than anything.
Carrie:Yeah. So I want to shift gears a little bit to talk about the professional organization that we mentioned in the intro, the Association of Latino Professionals for America. A nd you are the president of your chapter?
Amanda:Yeah, I am here in San Francisco.
Carrie:Can you talk a little bit about what plugged you into that organization and then just in general the importance of being part of a professional organization?
Amanda:Yeah, so I actually have been a part of this organization for 10 years, basically my final year of college, and then since I graduated, I met another member when I was working in Houston at Deloitte. I had never heard of the organization and she introduced me to it and told me what it was all about. And there's plenty of what we call them to be maybe like diversity and inclusion organizations that focus on different subcultures or different minority groups in our country and not even just ethnic minority groups. So also like L G B T Q has a lot of these groups and things like that. And they're basically there to empower and support minorities to progress themselves in whatever facet that the organization is focusing on. And being there as that like safe space and the place that you can have to share with other people who look like you and think like you and are from the same background as you to say like, Hey, these are the challenges I'm going through. What did you do? Like, how did you overcome that? And I think that is so important when it comes to just facing the everyday difficulties of life and of your career. And so I got involved and since then I was the vice president in Houston. I was the director of technology in Houston and currently, this is my second year as president in San Francisco. Previously I was the mentorship organizer. And so I organized some mentorship programs for students, connected to professionals here in San Francisco as well. It's just been something that, again, goes back to what makes me tick, which is that philanthropist out attitude of giving back and supporting your community. And that's been something that I think is really important in society. And so it's something that I feel really called to give to and to invest in. That's what's kept me doing it for as long as I've been working. So I've been doing that as well.
Carrie:Can you talk a little bit about the types of events that you have and how you initially plugged into it or how you would advise students to try to plug into a professional organization?
Amanda:Yeah. So in college there's often a lot of professional organizations that are really easy to join. I remember we would have these like different fairs where we would learn about the different organizations. And I think maybe when you're in college, you don't quite know that there's professional organizations once you graduate also. Of course, when you're in college, I think it's very obvious to join these organizations because you wanna get a job. And so I guess the next thought would be, well then why would I do it once I have a job? And my response would be is, for one thing, it's really great to have this organization where you have a community and where you have opportunities. For example, when I moved to San Francisco, the first thing I did was go and so we call it Alpha Association of Latino Professionals for America. The first thing I did was go to an Alpha event. And I think at that time it was their Women of Alpha event is essentially an event we throw to highlight and celebrate the women professionals in our community. I just showed up and I just started networking and making new friends. And so I had immediately when I moved to a new city, I had a community of people who were similar to me, similar to my background and also on similar career paths. And so that was a network and a resource that I could rely on to help me fit into my new city, fit into my new career path. It's just something that I've always seen nothing but benefit for. And I think everyone should join some sort of organization like that.'cause I think something that a lot of us don't even realize that we're desiring is more community connection.
Carrie:Yeah, absolutely. So looking back on your journey, do you have any big picture advice for students, whether they're first generation students in college, or whether you wanna talk about studying abroad or moving to a new place, or changing your major? You've had a lot of points in your story that I know a lot of students can relate to. Do you have any big picture advice for students that you felt like really helped you along your path?
Amanda:Yeah, especially now, a couple words of advice I would give is, and I know it sounds like kind of cliche, but be kind to yourself. I think what I talked about earlier of that guilt of changing and uprooting like what I thought my life was going to be and, having that patience and not judging yourself for making these decisions that you're not sure that, that it could be a risk. And even if it doesn't go the way you plan, like even if you do have quote unquote crash and burn, being kind to yourself when those kinds of things happen.'cause I think they happen so much more than anyone admits and probably to the most ironic people that you're like, wow, I did not know that you ended up doing this or doing that. Also being kind when you find out that, you know, these things happen for other people. As I go on in life, I'm realizing so much more that there's life will happen outside of your career. And so being kind to yourself in those moments, understanding your priorities are gonna change from time to time. It's not always gonna be like your going full throttle in your career. Things happen. Being patient with yourself and being patient when with your life. Especially coming from a minority background, I think sometimes it's really hard to accept the thought process of it's all gonna work out or it's all gonna be okay. And that's what I think I've learned even most recently in my life. Like there's a reason where I sometimes I get a lot of anxiety and it doesn't feel like it's all gonna be okay. And I've taken that in and realized that, that I think I lived a different experience than some people that I'm around. And so that's probably why, where those feelings are coming from. And I think like that was my first step of kind of managing those challenges for myself of realizing, ah, this is why it's really hard for me to accept that things are gonna work out and things are gonna be okay. I'm not necessarily used to and coming from a culture where that was the case. And so you will grow and learn these different things about yourself. And being patient with yourself as you're on that journey. Even when things aren't okay, that's okay. All you can do is take that next step and have as much confidence as you can give to yourself and empathy as you can give to yourself in that time.
Carrie:Absolutely. That's great advice. Well, Amanda, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your journey with us and giving this great advice to students.
Amanda:Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Carrie. It was an honor. Thank you.
Do you know someone I should interview? Please DM me on Instagram@pathsinprogresspodcast and let me know who I should talk to. I would love to hear about how these stories are impacting your journey. Please follow Paths in Progress wherever you download your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also follow us on Facebook and LinkedIn at Paths in Progress Podcast. Our music is by John Grimmett and the artwork is by Edgar Alanis. Thanks again for joining me today.