From a young age, Andy loved his American Airlines mechanic grandfather teaching him about airplanes. From the day he took his intro flight, he knew he wanted to pursue flying as his career. Join us for this conversation about the different ways you can obtain your certifications (and how the cost of each path varies), advantages and disadvantages to aviation degrees, what the schedule of a pilot is like, the enjoyable perks, and how your career can change over time. If you or someone you know is interested in becoming a pilot, this episode is for you!
From a young age, Andy loved his American Airlines mechanic grandfather teaching him about airplanes. From the day he took his intro flight, he knew he wanted to pursue flying as his career. Join us for this conversation about the different ways you can obtain your certifications (and how the cost of each path varies), advantages and disadvantages to aviation degrees, what the schedule of a pilot is like, the enjoyable perks, and how your career can change over time. If you or someone you know is interested in becoming a pilot, this episode is for you!
Thank you for joining us today on Paths in Progress. I'm your host, Carrie Young. On this podcast, people in a variety of career fields, talk about their journey from choosing their college, deciding which majors and minors to pursue, their first jobs out of college, and all of the hurdles, detours and victories along their path through today. Our goal is to help students hear about a variety of exciting opportunities out there and understand what day-to-day life is like in these careers. I hope you enjoy and learn from our story today. Thanks for listening. Hi, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We are here today with Andy, who is a captain at Delta. He's currently flying a 737. He has a bachelor's degree in Aviation Science. He's a Certified Flight Instructor, and he has his Airline Transport Pilot Certificate. And he's going to tell us all about that today. Andy, thanks for joining us.
Andy:Yeah, thanks. Thanks for having me on.
Carrie:Happy to have you. So, Andy, can you tell us, you know, being a pilot is kind of a childhood dream for a lot of people, right? The fascination with airplanes and aviation. So, when did that start for you?
Andy:I was one of those kids that wanted to be a pilot and, told everybody he was going to be a pilot someday. so my grandfather worked for American Airlines, he was a mechanic and.. So I grew up, running around airplanes in the hangar and, he taught me all about lift in aviation and I could identify different airplanes, from far away. Oh, wow. It kind of started, yeah, started, started as a kid.
Carrie:So when did you start actually taking your first steps to pursue that? Did you start flying as a teenager or when does that start for you?
Andy:I started in college, so when I started an aviation program and got all my certificates and ratings while I I worked on my bachelor's degree at the same time.
Carrie:So did you look for a college where you were in proximity to something where you could do that at the same time, or was it part of your program, or how did that work for you?
Andy:Yeah, so actually as I got to that age where I had to pick my career and it was going to be permanent, I explored other avenues and other majors and started out just know, general classes, you know, math and and then I it's called a survey of aviation class, in college and so I just wanted to kind of make sure I was on the right path. So, and I did find a college specifically that had a flight school attached to it because I knew that was plan A, but I was keeping all my options open. When I started college, I kind of eased into it because once you start flight training it becomes pretty expensive pretty fast. My theory or philosophy was once I start, I don't want to stop. So I kind of eased into it to make sure I wanted to start. And I did. It didn't take long.
Carrie:Yeah. So can you explain for students listening, As far as flight school goes and what you have to do to receive instruction and earn your hours and everything, can you explain what goes into that, and how you were able to manage that alongside of your college enrollment?
Andy:Yeah, the program I was in was, it was an aviation program, so it kind of... meshed together pretty well, and they designed it that way. So you're getting college credit for the flying that you did. And that's not necessary, but it was convenient for me and helpful financial wise, because I was able to get student loans, some student financial aid for my flight training as well, because they were technically classes. That was helpful in that regard, but that's not again. It's not necessary do it that way. You could get a degree in anything you want and then fly on the side at your local airport, find a flight instructor. You start out working on your private pilot certificate. that typically takes about, 40 or 50 hours of flight time. you go up with a flight instructor and, they teach you how to fly, how to take off and land and they'll do a few maneuvers in the air with you, do some stalls and steep turns and other maneuvers to make sure you can handle the airplane on your own. And then after about 10 hours or so, they throw you the keys and jump out and say, have a good flight. Call me when you get back you go out on your solo flight. And so that's kind of the first big step is that solo flight. And then from there you work on your private pilot maneuvers and there's a a check ride, you go with an FAA examiner and at the end. If you do all the maneuvers and procedures and different types of takeoffs and landings correctly, and there's also a written exam, uh, that you take separately. Then the FAA examiner signs you off to be a private pilot, and that allows you to fly, it's essentially like a driver's license, uh, for airplanes, and, uh, you can go and rent airplanes and, know, take friends around, you're You know, a private pilot. So that's the first step. And then from there, you get your commercial certificate, and then you can become a flight instructor or go fly, parachute jumpers, and you build up enough flight time to get your airline transport pilot, which is the Certificate that you need if you want to for the commercial airlines.
Carrie:So you said it didn't take long for you to be like hooked or committed to doing this. So what was it about flying? I mean, obviously you had these deep roots from watching your grandfather and things that you were able to learn as a kid, but like once you got in an airplane and started to learn and receive instruction, what do you think it was about that made you really decide that you definitely wanted to pursue that?
Andy:I remember the first time I went up on my intro flight, and from the front seat of this airplane, watching the ground fall away from you, the plane climbing into the air and watching everything get smaller. And I had been a passenger on airplanes before, but it's such a different sensation when you're in the front seat behind the controls with a panoramic view of the world, from that angle, it just, uh, I was definitely hooked from that first intro flight. And I knew that from that point, I was like, yeah, this is what I want to do. It didn't take long, it was after that first intro flight that I... Made that decision and just didn't stop or turn back from that point.
Carrie:Nice So with your degree in aviation science for students who may have an interest in this because there's different types of degrees in this industry right if you want to have your degree in the field. So can you talk about the Aviation science degree that you received and maybe some examples of like the types of classes that you were taking other than your flight instruction?
Andy:Yeah, the aviation science degree, it was a bachelor's degree in aviation science and It incorporated classes like I said, it incorporated the flying as well. So as you work through your different pilot certificates, like Private Pilot was a class. There is private pilot ground and private pilot flight and private pilot ground prepared you for an exam. And then private pilot flight prepared you for the practical exam or that check ride that you go up with the FAA examiner. And then as you go through the certificates and ratings, the next step was instrument rating, where you learn how to fly the airplane on the instruments on your airspeed indicator, your attitude indicator, and the different instruments so that you don't have to have outside visual reference. It's for when you're flying in the clouds. And so that instrument rating had two classes as well. There was an instrument ground class that prepared you for the instrument written exam, the FAA written exam. And then that served as the final exam for the course as well. And also the instrument flight that prepared you for that FAA practical exam. You had to take another check ride to get your instrument rating. And then commercial was the same. Commercial ground, commercial flight, and then you start to get into multi engine aircraft. That's another class. Some of the other courses that I took were meteorology. That was a fun one. I really enjoyed meteorology. Jet transport systems, where you learn about how jet engines work. Then the generals that kind of go along with that. You have to take some... Math and physics and other courses that are typical of a bachelor's degree. But those classes that are unique to the aviation science degree were those that had to do with flying specifically.
Carrie:So you mentioned that people could get a degree in anything and then pursue their licensing privately, but the way you describe those classes and how they prepare you for the exams, it sounds like that was a really great place to be, to be able to receive that instruction. Because would you otherwise be just like studying materials on your own or seeking private instruction?
Andy:Yeah, you would be studying on your own and also people get private instructors and there's flight schools that help you prepare for those certificates and ratings that are not affiliated with any college or university. You would pay it separately. You don't have the opportunity to use your student financial aid for those typically. Unless it's, there are some online aviation degree programs that allow you to do that. And so that might be a good option too if you're looking into the financial aid aspect of it. So there's definitely benefits to going with a college or university that has an aviation program. It worked out great for me so far. The drawback is, or the risk is, is that I have a degree in aviation science and If I ever got furloughed or lost my FAA medical certificate and could no longer fly, I don't have any other skills. And so, I wouldn't know what else to do as far as a job or trying to find a, an equivalent job to make the equivalent income that I make as a pilot. So you run that risk, in doing an aviation program or getting your degree in aviation, you're putting all your eggs in that basket, so to speak. Like I said, it worked out good for me, but I, I advise kids and new students coming into aviation to get a degree in something else. Kind of a backup, if they're interested in business or medicine or zoology or whatever, get a degree in something else. That way if you ever did get furloughed, which happens in the industry, or if you lost your FAA medical certificate, if your eyes went bad, or you, came down with, there's so many things that could cause you to lose your FAA medical certificate and you'd no longer be able to fly. So I kind of counsel new students and people coming into the program to get a degree in something else and then get, do the aviation training separately.
Carrie:Your FAA medical certificate, is that kind of like a physical you have to pass periodically to be able to keep your job, to stay flying?
Andy:Yeah, in fact, I just did mine this morning and it's every six months you go in and they just check your eyes and your urine and your heart and your, it's just a quick physical and make sure they ask you You know, all the typical questions that you'd get asked in a physical and make sure you're sleeping. Okay. There's certain diseases that you can get or conditions that you can get that could cause you to lose your medical temporarily or permanently. It's nice if you had a backup, like if you had a degree in business, for example, you could go and it'd be easier to find a job than if you're looking around with an aviation science degree.
Carrie:Do you feel like having a bachelor's degree, regardless of what it's in, does having a college degree help you in the airline industry as far as promotions? Are they not as concerned with that piece? What has been your experience there?
Andy:When I was going through, a bachelor's degree was required to get a job as an airline pilot. When I got hired, they wouldn't even interview you if you didn't have a bachelor's degree. Some of the airlines are changing that slowly, as there's a pilot shortage right now. They're starting to take people with associates degrees or even no degrees at all. They'll interview you, but having a bachelor's degree definitely still puts you at the top of the stack as far as competition goes. When that pilot shortage is over, they may go back to requiring that degree again. It's all kind of supply and demand, as there's a shortage of pilots, airlines start kind of lowering their hour minimums and their degree requirements, but for the longest time ever since, it's just been recently that they've dropped that bachelor's degree requirement to zero to get an interview. But I would definitely say it would be an important thing to pursue.
Carrie:Yeah. And I think a lot of the public's familiar that there has been a pilot shortage, but I'm not sure everyone knows why. Are there some theories or some conversation in the industry about why that's happened and what they're doing to try to remedy it?
Andy:COVID played a role, in that, and, there was a time where it was very difficult to get your pilot training, and it was very expensive. That's always been the case, I guess, but I guess the payoff wasn't as good, so you'd pay 100, 000 to get your pilot certificates and ratings and your degree, and then you may start out as a regional airline, You know, making 20, 000 or 30, 000, and so the payoff wasn't there. And so people weren't going into it because of that. I think largely for that reason, but as the pay started to increase, they've just fairly recently bumped the pay up, even at the regional level, to try to get more people to come in, and it's working. I mean, flight schools are full, and there's plenty of hiring going on, but there was that kind of bubble there, a time where people weren't going into it because they just didn't think it would be worth it. So they made it worth it again and it's catching up, but it's going to take a little while. Yeah.
Carrie:So can you tell us a little bit about the first job that you had in the industry out of college and what that was like?
Andy:Yeah, I actually worked as a flight instructor for about three years. Most of that was while I was in college. And then I graduated and continued to work as a flight instructor while I built up my flight time. And that was really a fun job. I enjoy that I flight instructed in the general aviation aircraft, some single engine and some multi engine piston aircraft. And then once you get about a thousand hours, it's kind of the magic number. Then you can start putting your application in. And the first airline that I got hired at was SkyWest Airlines. It's a regional airline that flies mostly regional jets, well, all regional jets now that at the time they had a turboprop of Brasilia. And that was the first plane that I flew at SkyWest. I was there for quite a while. But yeah, that was my first job flying the Brasilia around. And then I transitioned to a regional jet and flew that for a long time before I got hired at Delta..
Carrie:So when you start out with like a regional airline, and I don't know if it's the same with a large airline like Delta, but what was your schedule like? Because I think that's something that people hear about just through the media and things that people watch, you know, obviously you're traveling a lot. And so can you talk about what that schedule is like and kind of how that impacts your daily life and how you function?
Andy:Yeah, the schedule can be difficult sometimes because you're gone, I would say you're gone about half the time. You'll have a two or three or a four or even a five day trip. So I'll be gone for 3 or 4 or 5 days, and then I'll have 3 or 4 or 5 days off. There's nothing regular or consistent about it, so it's all over the place. Pilots bid for schedules, and so you, as your seniority increases, you can bid for trips that you want, and as you're there at the airline longer, you typically get more of what you want, so you can have a little bit of consistency, like if you wanted to work. You know, Monday through Thursday or you could kind of have a little more say in when and where you work, but it is pretty inconsistent and it's kind of all over the place and you're gone about half the time. So you'll leave do a 4 day trip. You'll leave and not come back to your home base for, it could be, two days, three days, four days, and they even have five day trips that I'm not a huge fan of, but that's a long time to be gone, but it is part of the gig.
Carrie:Yeah. And how has that changed for you over time as far as balancing your life? If you were like single when you first started flying and then eventually you have a family, like how is that progression of your life kind of worked with trying to balance, a flight schedule gradually doing that over the years. What does that look like?
Andy:Yeah, it was difficult because I was fairly junior pilot when I met Channing. So she kind of knew a little bit about my job and my schedule, but we met and went on a first date and then I was gone for four days. And so I wasn't able to see her again. And then when I came into town, I'm like, Hey, I'm leaving again for another four day trip in a few days. So we've got to make these few days count. It does affect your dating and you got to be careful who you marry because they've got to be tough and be able to handle life and kids on their own for days at a time. But the plus side of it is when you're home, you're home. Like I don't bring a briefcase or a laptop home and stress over work while I'm at home. I throw my flat bag in the closet and I don't touch it again until I go back to work. And then. taking the kids to school on Wednesday afternoon, and I'm going to the field trips with the kids with their elementary classes, and I'm helping out in the classroom with Valentine's parties, and all the stuff that most dads don't get to do. Yeah, so there's pluses and minuses to that schedule for sure.
Carrie:How does the industry kind of address, stress and mental health with pilots? Obviously there's probably pilots out there have had a wide variety of experiences in the cockpit and things that have potentially impacted them long term or had, you know, stressful or scary situations in going into what are some reassurances or kind of encouragement you can provide with what resources are there for people who may experience that in their career?
Andy:As far as stress goes, when it comes to flying and things that could come up during flying, I think the remedy for that is preparation and training. Pilots spend a lot of time training for worst case scenarios. If something happens in flight, it's not the first time we've seen it. We've flown the simulator around with one engine all over. We've flown the simulator with engines on fire. We've practiced these emergency procedures. It pretty extensively and so that preparation helps mitigate that fear of something happening when you're in the air because you have that confidence that you've been prepared and that you feel like you could handle something that comes up, because while those things are rare, like the major engine failures and fires are rare. You know, if you have something like an electrical failure, you can be like, Oh, that's not a big deal. I've handled a cargo fire in the simulator. I've handled much worse. So when these problems come up, I think that preparation is what helps with that stress. As far as mental health in the industry, that I think that's something that there have been a lot of positive changes recently. The FAA used to pull your medical certificate if you had any kind of diagnosis of depression or anxiety, it would have possibly affect your ability to keep your FAA medical certificate. So pilots were afraid to go get treatment or go get help, because they didn't want that to pop up as a red flag. But those things are changing. Now they're encouraging pilots to go talk to someone and get the help that they need. And helping them in that path to healing and mental health is a much higher priority than it used to be. And so I think that's a good thing.
Carrie:What are some advances in technology that you've seen over the course of your career and some, like, exciting things that you're seeing coming in the future?
Andy:Planes have, In some ways have been the same for a hundred years and other ways, like, have made huge, huge advancements and it's been really cool to see just in my short life, you know relative to the history of the airplane. To kind of talk to, like we were talking about your grandfather And people that were alive, not very long ago, they watched airplanes be created and invented and watched Orville and Wilbur Wright take off from the sands of North Carolina to go into the moon and break in the sound barrier. And that's just a couple of generations back. And as far as advancements now, I think we're to the stage where actually, I feel like the goal isn't to go faster now. The goal is to go. Maybe even a little bit slower, but take less gas. All the major airlines are doing initiatives to get away from fossil fuels and the typical jet fuel and to find other ways to power airplanes. And I think we're a long way away from that, but it's also something that's it'll be exciting to watch unfold in our lifetime and in our future. I think we'll see the first non fossil fuel powered commercial airplanes in our lifetime.
Carrie:So you mentioned that sometimes, there's risk for your medical certificate to be revoked. And obviously, you know, that can happen for a variety of reasons. And, something that could be completely out of your control. Have you seen some other types of roles that pilots have been able to transition into? If either something like that happens, or if they just don't have an interest anymore in the type of schedule, do you have some colleagues over the years who have transitioned into other things within like the airline industry that are kind of possibilities for students to think about long term?
Andy:Yeah, there are a lot of avenues that you can take with aviation. Like you mentioned, the aeronautical engineering degree, if people are interested in airplanes. And if you're an engineer, kind of mentality like that would be an exciting place. There's aviation law. There's a lot of different, there's training and simulators and either becoming an instructor in the simulator or working on simulators, aircraft maintenance. I mean, there's all kinds of avenues in aviation that you can go into that your background and experience as a pilot would help. Another thing is as you move through the ranks of the airline industry. You develop some good communication and personal skills, personal development, some leadership traits and characteristics that would serve you well in any industry that you decide to get into. I had a friend that got out of aviation when, The economy was tough and schedules were really rough and he went into oil and gas and became, one of the top executives because of his ability, his kind of leadership traits and characteristics that he developed during the course of his career. So there's all these different avenues and ways that you can go if you decide you don't want to do it or can no longer do it.
Carrie:So you mentioned how as you work over the years and you develop seniority, you can kind of bid for different scheduling. What are some other things that change over time? You know, whether you're switching airlines or you're within the same airline, do your days just kind of look the same for your whole career? Like how do things develop and change over time the longer that you're in the industry or the longer that you're in that type of role? And when you're promoted, what does that look like? Like how is that different for you?
Andy:Typically you start out as a first officer, which is the right seat and then As you move up in seniority, you have the option or the ability to upgrade to captain, which is the left seat. So there's some different roles and responsibilities there. The pay also increases with that. Your seniority takes a drop when you upgrade to captain because now you're with the captain group. So your seniority is typically lower, where a high seniority first officer would be. When they upgrade to captain, they would be further down the list. So, your ability to get Christmas off and weekends and stuff kind of goes down, but eventually it'll go back up as your seniority climbs. And then also your schedules can change as you have a little bit more control over them. And you also have the opportunity to fly different types of airplanes, which can bring different scenery and different overnights and different, even different parts of the world at Delta or any of the major airlines. Here's just a few. Fly the international aircraft, the bigger airplanes that fly international. You have the opportunity to expand your globe and your reach and your experience that way too. So, it, it kind of depends on the airline that you're working for, that some airlines are all domestic and stay domestic and some even just have one type of airplane. So your schedule and the plane that you're flying is going to stay the same throughout your career. But if you go to an airline that has different aircraft in their fleet, different types of airplanes, Your possibilities for changes in schedules and what you're seeing from day to day can change quite a bit. And you also have the opportunity to go into other safety departments and training departments. You have an opportunity to work as an instructor in the airlines as well. So things can change over the course of your career in that way, too.
Carrie:And just to be really basic about how the scheduling works, like when you have a two or three or four day trip, what are the parameters that you have? Like once you land, I'm just assuming the airline transports the crew to a hotel and are you required to sleep a certain number of hours? And how does all of that work when you're on like a multi day job?
Andy:Yeah, you'll typically leave your base and do a couple legs and end up somewhere like I might go, Salt Lake to Portland, and then Portland back to Salt Lake, and then Salt Lake to Tampa, and then we'll spend the night in Tampa. And they'll get, they'll pick us up from the airport and bring us to the hotel. And there's FAA mandated rest requirements. And so you have to have 10 hours at the hotel or at least eight hours of sleep opportunity is what they call it. And so there, yeah, it is mandated, like it's regulated, I should say, like your amount of rest that you get. You can only fly so many hours a day, and so many hours a week, and a month, and even a year. So if that would be day one, you wake up in Tampa, and then you might fly to New York, and then to Portland, or back to Seattle or somewhere, and end up in a different city that night. And then, eventually, you wind your way back home on day four.
Carrie:If you were to get like food poisoning and you're up all night with that, do you report that like I didn't sleep because I got sick and then you're not allowed to fly for a while or how does that work?
Andy:Yeah, you definitely, they encourage you to not come to work sick. You know, some jobs you can power through a cold or just come to work anyway. But this is one that you definitely don't want to come to work sick. And they encourage us to call in sick if we're sick. And if you're feeling bad on an overnight, you eat something bad, uh, you get sick at the hotel, you call them and they'll just have you either stay an extra day and fly another pilot out to take your position, to take your flight. Sometimes they'll deadhead you home or they'll put you in the back and fly you home, so that you can go home and rest, depending on how sick you are. But, yeah, they definitely don't want you to come to work if you're sick at all.
Carrie:And I think one thing people probably wonder about is like travel perks, because obviously for flying all over the place. We see on Instagram that your kids are quite the world travelers. So is there some advantage to where you can bring your family with you on a trip or you meet them places? What is some of the family advantages to being a pilot in a commercial airline?
Andy:Oh, that's definitely my favorite part is that aspect of it. And having Channing be able to come and bring the kids on overnights when I have a long overnight in a cool place. You know, she'll come. Or the ability to fly. We were able to fly standby. So if there's open seats, we can have them. We've gotten them and gone taking the kids, like you said, all over. We've been to Europe and South America and we go to Hawaii quite a bit and everywhere in between. So it's been a lot of fun. We've gotten to have a lot of family adventures with those flight benefits, for sure.
Carrie:We talked about how you obtained your education and your flight certifications, but can you talk a little bit about the military route for students who may be interested in this, who either aren't able or don't want to do it, privately or through a university? Can you talk about how to do that through the military?
Andy:Yeah, the military is actually a great route to go and I would say about half of the pilots at the airlines come through the military, have the military experience and training. And so you may start out getting your private pilot certificate, through just a typical FBO or they call it fixed base operator. It's the flight school at an airport where you'll go with an instructor. And then depending on when and where you sign up for the military or join the military, they'll pay for the rest of your training and get you trained. And then they'll assign you an aircraft, and I'm not sure exactly how they make those assignments, but, they'll assign you the aircraft and so all of your training. is paid for by the military, which is great. And then you pay the military back in years of service. I believe it's ten years is pretty standard. I don't know if there's other options for payback, but ten years is a typical time that a military pilot will be in the Air Force or the Navy or whatever branch of military they join. And they'll fly, it could be fighter jets, or cargo aircraft, or even helicopters. And then after they fulfill their ten year obligation, then they're free to either stay in the military or go get a job at a commercial airline.
Carrie:So you said you feel like about half of the pilots in a commercial airline come from the military, just from your observation?
Andy:Yeah, it seems like about half, yeah. I'd say about half came through military and half came through the civilian training that I did.
Carrie:So for students who are considering this career path or who have an interest in it, do you have any kind of tidbits of advice of things that they should start doing either as a high school student or as a young college student to help prepare them or perhaps even just to help kind of test the waters to see if this is the right path for them?
Andy:Yeah, I would say go do that observation flight, or that intro flight. I wish I would have done that much earlier. I think I would have gotten further faster had I decided sooner, I guess. Or pulled the trigger sooner, I should say. So, that was kind of the motivation that I needed to pull that trigger. And it helped me to determine that's what I wanted to do. I took my brother up on an observation flight after I was a flight instructor and he was about that stage where he was trying to decide what he wanted to do. And it was fairly turbulent and he got a little air sick. But for him it wasn't, it didn't flip that switch. And so I would say that, you know, the observation flight is an important thing way to test the waters. And talk to people that are in the industry, go talk to anyone that you know that's an airline pilot, but talk to multiple, don't take the advice of just one, because there's some that may have a bad attitude. But pick three or four and kind of get a general feel, and you can put all of the opinions and experiences together to form your own path.
Carrie:Are there any kind of subjects in high school that students should, like, is physics something that's important for them to take advantage of if it's offered to them? Or is there anything like that, that you feel helps with preparation going into college, just having some more foundational knowledge in a particular area?
Andy:Not necessarily, I think all the basics in general, anything that would help you be a good student overall, like help you succeed in college, would help you succeed in the airlines as well. Because it's not necessarily that you're learning physics, and that you know all about physics and how airplanes fly, but it's that you know how to learn. And that you Know how to work hard, and then you know how to like check the boxes to finish tasks and finish the job. Because a lot of aviation training is kind of checking those boxes as you're working through to get your commercial pilot certificate. You have to do A, B, C, D. You know, you have this list of things you have to do. And they don't all apply and I don't use all those skills and things that I learned in either physics or even as I'm in the things, the maneuvers I learned from my certificates and ratings, but I think just the process of learning will help you succeed. And so just being a good student in general is important.
Carrie:As far as getting that initial job or even moving up through the ranks throughout your career, you've mentioned some of the obstacles that are completely outside of anyone's control, like the medical certificate and obviously industry layoffs, but are there some other things that people should be aware of that can be helpful to help sustain a career, assuming that the medical certificate and that the layoffs are not an issue?
Andy:Yeah, I so I always tell people the faster you get through training, the less money you're going to spend. So you'll spend a lot of money and time right up front, and also a benefit of going through fast is that you'll get hired faster. And seniority is key. Seniority plays a big role in quality of life and how your career goes. And so if you can get in even a few months sooner, your career will be that much better because you'll have that much more seniority. And so I suggest and encourage students that are getting into aviation to just get it done as fast as you can. Get a job as quick as you can at an airline that you want to work for. Because once you're there, your seniority plays a big role in your schedule and when you can upgrade to captain. So many other things depend on that seniority, so I say do it fast. It'll save you money in the long run, too. It's kind of overwhelming to see those flight training bills rack up, but the faster you do it, the less you'll spend in the long run.
Carrie:What are some of the most rewarding things about this career?
Andy:Oh, I think one of the most rewarding things that I partly that I just enjoy flying. And I think sometimes still In awe that I get to do this for a living. It's an enjoyable career I mean the other aspect that I enjoy is I enjoy flying passengers. There's cargo airlines and stuff. But one of the things that I like about it is flying people to job interviews, or to family reunions, or vacations, or even funerals, like taking people places that they wouldn't be able to go otherwise. And, that aspect of it brings me some satisfaction. So, I think that's pretty rewarding as well.
Carrie:Yeah. Well, looking back over your career, do you have some big picture life advice, whether or not it's specific to aviation, even if it's, more about leadership or character or being a student? Do you have some major life advice for students that you felt like has really helped you along your path?
Andy:That's a good question. I think, you know, it's a tough choice to make when you're trying to decide what you want to do, as far as your career goes. I remember, someone told me, you can do anything you want, but you can't do everything you want. And so you have to kind of pick something and get good at it. And that's where that choice of doing it, I wanted to make sure that I wanted to do that before I went. Because I knew once I started out, I wasn't going to stop. And so I think that's the advice I would give too. Is like, once you pick something, just work really hard on it and be the best. Pick something that you want to be the best at and spend your time and your effort and your energy becoming the best that you can be at that, in that field or in your chosen career. There's always going to be setbacks, right? Like, when I was going through flight training, that's when September 11th happened, and, they, I had just, Oh, wow. Just gotten my commercial pilot certificate, and there was a huge setback in the industry. They raised the retirement age. That was another setback for me, for new guys trying to get in. Because we were counting on those older guys retiring at 60 and they raised to 65, and that kind of set things back. And then COVID was a more recent setback in the aviation industry. There's slowdowns in the economy, and so there's always going to be setbacks, and I would just advise people to expect some kind of setback and just be willing to work through it and keep plowing through and going forward.
Carrie:Yeah. Well, Andy, thanks so much for joining us today and for sharing your story and giving all this great advice for students who may be interested in this industry.
Andy:Yeah. Thanks for doing this. Like I wish I had this podcast to listen to when I was trying to decide what to do and trying to end that point in my life. So that's such a good thing.
Carrie:Thanks. I appreciate that.
Do you know someone I should interview? Please DM me on Instagram@pathsinprogresspodcast and let me know who I should talk to. I would love to hear about how these stories are impacting your journey. Please follow Paths in Progress wherever you download your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also follow us on Facebook and LinkedIn at Paths in Progress Podcast. Our music is by John Grimmett and the artwork is by Edgar Alanis. Thanks again for joining me today.