As the son of a military colonel and a physician, Phil was expected to go to college. Once he got there, he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do, so he started on a business degree track. Join us for this conversation about how Phil discovered his love for a different subject, and how he has continued to make A or B choices along his path to get to where he is today. Phil intentionally continues to learn, grow, and pursue his passions, all while giving back through mentorship and prioritizing the important relationships in his life.
You can follow Phil’s podcast, Positive Philter, including a recent episode with yours truly, here, as well as other platforms:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/positive-philter-podcast/id1223813013
As the son of a military colonel and a physician, Phil was expected to go to college. Once he got there, he wasn’t sure what he wanted to do, so he started on a business degree track. Join us for this conversation about how Phil discovered his love for a different subject, and how he has continued to make A or B choices along his path to get to where he is today. Phil intentionally continues to learn, grow, and pursue his passions, all while giving back through mentorship and prioritizing the important relationships in his life.
You can follow Phil’s podcast, Positive Philter, including a recent episode with yours truly, here, as well as other platforms:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/positive-philter-podcast/id1223813013
Thank you for joining us today on Paths in Progress. I'm your host, Carrie Young. On this podcast, people in a variety of career fields, talk about their journey from choosing their college, deciding which majors and minors to pursue, their first jobs out of college, and all of the hurdles, detours and victories along their path through today. Our goal is to help students hear about a variety of exciting opportunities out there and understand what day-to-day life is like in these careers. I hope you enjoy and learn from our story today. Thanks for listening.
Carrie:Hi everyone. Thanks for joining us today. We are here today with Phil Wilkerson. He is a higher education professional. He's a podcast host. He's a content creator and a public speaker. He has an undergraduate degree in History, a Master's of Education degree in Counseling, and he's currently working on his PhD in Communications. Phil does so many things. I'm excited to dive into all of that today. So Phil, thanks so much for joining us.
Phil:Thank you. This was great. You know, and I love the collaboration that we had. Definitely a big fan of Paths and Progress podcast. You just named a bunch of things I got going on, so, yeah. You know, trying to wear multiple hats, as you're doing as well. So very excited to be here.
Carrie:I love it. I love the chatting with you. It's been so fun and just getting to know you from afar. So I'm glad that you're here with us today. So can you take us back to your high school days and tell us a little bit about what you were thinking as you started to consider college and career path and what you were gonna major in? What was on your mind at that time?
Phil:So, I grew up in a very accomplished household. My father was 30 years in the army, retired as a colonel, and my mother was a physician. And so, I think education was always important. Going to college wasn't even a question for me in my household. I've always, I would believe and say intelligent, just one of those people that didn't apply themselves more. So when I was going through high school and I was partially in advanced classes, And you know, I was doing well. I did well in subjects I cared about. In classes I didn't, I didn't, right. So, which is really funny. I was getting A's and B's and did really well in. Things that were geared toward liberal arts. So my history classes, my English, all that. And then I wasn't really the best at STEM, you know, that wasn't my go-to. So that I already checked the box, that I didn't wanna be a doctor. And then, just looking at my dad's trajectory as like, man, you know, the structure moving all the time. Just being super regimented. I was like, I'm not cut out for the military. So those two options, looking at my parents, I already knew I didn't wanna do either one of those. My grades weren't the best going outta high school. Instead of getting into the school I wanted to get to, which is James Madison, I had a track scholarship to Bowie State, in Bow Maryland. And I'm from the Northern Virginia area, so it was close. I'm right outside of DC. I live in, Alexandria, Virginia. So going to Bowie, already with the mindset that I didn't wanna be there because I wanted to get into JMU. I was wait listed. I used Bowie state as somewhat of a community college, meaning like I was gonna get my grades up. I was gonna do the best I can and ideally transfer to JMU. Yeah. Added motivation was that my girlfriend, aka, who became my wife, was already at JMU. She got in as a freshman. So I studied business and I thought that was the route. I was like, I don't wanna do medicine. I don't wanna do stem. I really don't wanna be in the military. So I did business administration at Bowie. but then when I transferred to JMU, I did transfer as a business student. I was in all these business classes my first semester at JMU and I realized I don't like just being in these big business classes. I was a number. Wasn't doing the best in managerial accounting. I did decently in accounting. I was like, man, business is not the way. And luckily for me, I had a gen ed history course with a professor named H. Michael Galvan. We stay in touch. He's one of my friends, actually now my friend, like, oh, I love that. And I was like, man, this dude is dope. Like history is awesome. And it wasn't a typical history class. He was very, as we say, woke or very progressive. So he was talking about, you know, the real history and yeah, history of Virginia and slavery and not in up way, but like being real and making people uncomfortable. And I was like, I'll rock with this. I love this. Like he's telling that as it is. And I loved it. I really had no career aspirations. I just knew that I liked being at JMU. I was getting good grades in my history classes, getting straight A's in my history classes. I enjoyed teachers like H. Michael Galfan, and then luckily Professor Borg, Lamont King. I went straight through with the most amazing history professors at JMU. Every one of'em was someone that I could probably still reach out and say, you were a great teacher because they were all cool. All the classes were small, at least less than 20. So it encouraged me to actually do my reading and talk in class to encourage that. While I was there, I was like, man, I love it. I love history. But then I got to my senior year and I had no clue what to do with that degree. It was funny cause we'll get into this later. I didn't go to the career center. I didn't do none of that stuff at JMU, which I should have done. I got my resume looked at once. But I knew at that moment, at least bare minimum, that I wanted to enjoy my classes and I wanted to get good grades.
Carrie:Yeah. I often encourage students in that route if they don't know what they wanna do, because how many of us know for sure what we wanna do with our life, you know, before we're 21? I mean, it's just, that's common and it's treated like it's not, but it is. So for students, if you really don't know what you wanna do, seek out that subject that lights you up, that you love the classes that you do really well in. That you connect with the professors and you build a network there and you build skills that you find things that interest you and that can to where you're supposed to go. Right. I think there's students out there who are discouraged from doing that. They're told, well, if you don't know what you wanna do, then just go get a business degree. You know? And there's some legitimacy to that. Sure. But like, also find what lights you up, because that will help you find where you need to go.
Phil:Hundred percent. And like I, I will say I enjoyed the college experience too. And that also helped just make my time at JMU amazing. Like I did alternative spring breaks where we went down to New Orleans and cleaned homes. I studied abroad in China for a summer.
Carrie:Can we talk about that for a minute?
Phil:Yeah, go ahead.
Carrie:So with study abroad, how did you choose that? At mean, how did you choose your adventure? I guess? How do we say it? Ok.
Phil:I literally think my book in my life could be called Phillip Wilkerson, the Most Random Man you'll ever Meet So,
Carrie:I love it.
Phil:I was at the, I think it was called Festival, which is like one of the many cafeterias at JMU. And there was a study abroad fair. And I just walked in and I went to all these tables at the study abroad fair. And the one for Africa to go to Ghana was already filled. The one for Spain was already filled. And so I just went to the China table and they. Are you interested? And I was like, I guess so. And I put my name on the interest form, right, that the interest form for going to study abroad in China. And then I went to the interest meeting to learn about it. And I literally, this is without a shadow of a doubt, I sat next to my friend, my boy, Wayne, two. I called Wayne too nasty. And he was really cool. We hit it off at that information session. And I was like, alright, if you know people like Wayne ain't gonna be at that trip. I'll go through that thing. I told my parents I wanna study in abroad, China. You can take some classes. I pitched to my parents, like, you'll get a buffer on your credits are not that hard, so you'll get a buffer on your grades. I'll study, you know, I'll make it work because I could take a history class and it'll count toward my history degree.
Carrie:Oh, nice. I was gonna ask if history had any part in that.
Phil:Yeah. Well, not really, not in the initial decision. I just went and we studied comparative politics class between China's communism in America. Ooh. History class. We had a business class, level one Chinese language class. I think I got like, out of that trip. I think I got like nine credits or so. Like, it was 12 weeks. It was a really long summer trip. Yeah. And I loved every moment. It was 25 of us, 12 were white, 12 were Asian American of types of Asians, Filipino, Chinese, Korean, and me, the sole black man. And I loved it, man. It was just the most life changing trip. And I just went, you know, I was just down to go. Like as I said earlier, I was a military brat, so I've been around the world. I've traveled, but I've never been to China. As a eastern culture, it is very different from Western culture. So I was just soaking it in. I have memories that like, they're imprinted in my brain. And then I came back in another adventure of random Philip Wilkerson and I talked to my advisor and he was like, yo, you take one more class, you got a Asian studies minor. So now I got a history. Oh yeah. Studies minor that made me culturally aware. I really appreciate cultures of world, worldly. I love other cultures food. But yeah, like I said, I, it kind of goes back to the history thing. I was just open to experiences. I wanted to just get full advantage of JMU, like the study abroad, the alternative spring break, clubs and activities, and just get my money's worth when I was in college. I think it was great. I encourage anyone to go study abroad. I would say this though, do a little bit more research than me, so you can at least get it aligned with the program, or at least try to go to a country that you really wanna go to. But I was also one of those people that was like, I would've gone to any country in the world if they had a study abroad.
Carrie:Yeah. I think that's a good point too, like of course, you wanna look into that, but that said, no matter where you go, really, a lot of those universal impacts that study abroad has on us, you know, will happen no matter where you go. So just kind of the greater independence and learning how to navigate a new place. At least participate and learn and you know, cuz that can be beneficial no matter where you go.
Phil:Yeah, I think so. I would just put that like if you had like a college Experience, passport. I definitely would just encourage everyone join a club, check to get that experience, study abroad, check and do some form of service. That was also amazing too. So I would encourage everyone to just get a holistic experience regardless if it, I had no career aspirations when I did these trips. I wasn't saying, oh, I'm gonna study abroad in China because someday I wanna do China business or China history. I just wanted to go study abroad and experience a different world than mine. Yeah. And it was pretty awesome. Yeah.
Carrie:That's, I love that. That is awesome. So you said as you got to senior year, you realized you didn't know what you were gonna do. So what were you starting to think about and what were some of those next steps you were taking?
Phil:Honestly, I did the, what I shouldn't have done, and I just graduated, walked across the stage and I was unemployed. Moved back home with my parents, you know, here in Northern Virginia. Applied for jobs and, you know, just trying to plug away business, job, anything, just apply. I really didn't know the job market or resume skills or none of this stuff. And it was kind of hard moving back home because, you know, my wife once again, she's just the rockstar. Amazing. She had her trajectory, right? She did social work in undergrad. Got her masters in one year in social work. And so while I was still at JMU doing the super senior year, she got her masters and then when she moved back home, she had a job. And a full-time big girl job. So I was like, dang, I'm trying to keep up with my girlfriend. Like I knew we had a future together, but I had no job. And then luckily for me, and this is the blessing, I would tell all that people about this too, is. Be open to new work experiences and also rely on your friends. Luckily for me, one of my best friends, Justin Bell and I shout him out. He had a job at a school for children with special needs called Alternative Pass Training School. These are for kids that were special ed, you know have, IEPs, but they also had concurrently like maladaptive behaviors like biting, kicking, fighting. So the county would place these children in this alternative school. My boy, Justin, being a D one football player was what they called a behavior facilitator. So a teacher's aide. It was like Three miles from where I grew up off Richmond Highway. Oh, wow. So luckily it was a family affair. Justin, his brother worked there. Then my best friend Hillard worked there. Then Hillard's older brother worked there. And then me. And then more people. So basically all they needed was someone a college degree and bodies, cuz we just got beat up. But it was my first job in education and I was so grateful for that real paycheck. It was, I call it like the interim period, like a gap year experience because through that job at Alternative Paths, it was just a landing place for people with college degrees and then they kind of pivoted and figured out what they wanted to do. And so, yeah, I remember specifically saying, this is not the way, this is a burnout. I'm happy to get a paycheck, but I have to go back to school and get a master's. I like education. Because of Justin and this experience and alternative paths, I wanna be an educator. I work in some realm of education. I do not want to be a history teacher, so I'll be a school counselor. So I looked for school counseling programs in the area because I'm in a long term relationship with my girlfriend. I'm a Northern Virginia person. I'm not trying to move. And I applied to Mason. Do you know why I applied to Mason, Carrie?
Carrie:I do not know why.
Phil:Because they did not require a GRE.
Carrie:Such a good reason I board. Yep.
Phil:And so, so I was like, wow. I already even doing my application on the computer, in the room with the kids beating me up, you know, like taking a break. Let me do the little computer. Mm-hmm. and so, by the grace of God I got in. I think the positive part about the Mason counseling program was that they focused on more so your experiences and your desire to help people rather than your GPA and all that and your theoretical background. Right. I like, I'm gonna do a little quick pivot and share a story that shows like still the randomness of me. We had to do an interview to get into this program. That was the main thing. So I drove from Alexandria to Fairfax for my interview right after school. And the school alternative hat, we wore whatever you want, but I wanted to wear suits, so I get to Mason. And I pull up to Mason, run to the Johnson Center where this interview is being held, change in the bathroom, put on my suit in the bathroom, and run up to the interview room. And I bust through the door like Kramer, and all the heads turned to me, and I did not realize this was a group interview. And I was late. All the eyes turned to me. And I will never forget this, Dr. Rita Chung, who was the head of that program, looked at me and said, Philip Wilkerson, I'm so glad you can finally join us. And I was, my bad. But obviously, I really wanna help people. And I got in. And, Dr. Chung, we joke about that. She used to say every class, oh, I'm glad you can join us. I'm like, Dr. Chung, I'm in the program. I will say I had imposter syndrome because everyone in the program was saying oh, why do you wanna be a counselor? What did you study in undergrad? And I was like, history. Like really? What are you doing here? And I was like, I wanna help people. Yeah. Cause everyone was like psychology and you all that stuff. But that program, once again, the book of the most random person, that program in grad school changed my life once again. So it was always just being open and float, like just bouncing next experience.
Carrie:Well, can we just say, I love that you told the story about having this job for a year after college, because I think a lot of college graduates feel the pressure to like find that perfect thing right after they graduate, right? Like, oh, I have to get this particular thing I really want. There's just so much pressure to do that, you know, like, I'm getting this degree. I worked so hard and I've gotta get this kind of job to feel like it's worth it or that I'm successful or whatever. And really, so many people have I guess an unexpected might be the right word, an unexpected job right after they graduate that ends up changing their life and ends up really putting things in perspective. I just wanna thank you for telling that and encourage students that it's okay to get a job after you graduate that is not the thing you thought you were gonna have, or it's not some ideal in your head because you never know who you're gonna meet during that period. You never know what kind of experience you're gonna have that really informs you and teaches you something maybe about your industry or maybe just about yourself that helps you make that decision moving forward.
Phil:Yeah, and I totally agree, and I think one thing I like to add to that is that I already went into that job knowing this is not my forever job. I just needed a landing space to get a paycheck. Gained some experiences, put some things on my resume, talk to people, but I knew flat out I was putting, you know, that just wasn't it. It allowed me safe space to like look for grad school, you know, like at least, yeah. As I explored grad school, I was getting a paycheck. I had a roof over my head. I was always comfortable with saying it's okay not to have it all figured out. Like, am I good right now? Like, am I good? I got relationships. I got friends. I'm taking one step toward a new level, which is I'm going to grad school, so I'm okay. Like, I, I am okay. Yeah. And I ground myself in that. And then I'm like, I'm always like this too. Like if I'm okay and I'm in a good landing space, the next opportunity's gonna come. Because I remember in the counseling program, I was like, wow, there's a lot of school counselors. I don't know if I'm gonna get into school counseling. So I switched over to the other concentration, which was community agency counseling. And that was a blessing too, because if I was school counseling, your internship is placed in a school. When I moved over to the community counseling, you had to find your own internship in regards to counseling.
Carrie:For people who dunno what community agency counseling is? Can you talk about what that means?
Phil:The community agency now switched to mental health counseling, aligns you more so with a track to get a LPC as opposed to the school counseling one, which just allowed you to be qualified to get into the school system to be a school counselor. Yeah. And I remember taking that and I was like, I don't know man. I guess I'll be a therapist. And once again, just by random happenstance, we had a career counseling class, and I was like, that's it. I wanna do career counseling. And then once again, we had a guest speaker, his name is Ken Durant. He passed away. He came to our class and he was like, You can get an internship with career services here at Mason. We have an agreement with this counseling program. And the light bulb went off. I said, I'm doing that internship no matter what. I'm doing that internship. So I emailed him. I said, can I do a site visit? Can I do an informational interview? Can I just talk to you? What would make me a strong candidate for this internship? He actually emailed me and said, Philip, stop. Leave me alone. You got the internship, I got you. And he was a mentor. He was someone that really helped me in that space at Mason. I did my last year of my master's as a career counseling intern, and that was it. I mean, I was sold. I was like, I have to work with young people. I have to work at a college. Particularly, I would love to do this career counseling stuff. I have to do it. So I did that. Graduate in 2012, applied for a job at Mason in 2012, and guess what happened?
Carrie:You got it.
Phil:No, I didn't get it.
Carrie:You didn't I get it.
Phil:I didn't get it. In 2012, but then I just started working in education. I worked at NOVA, the community college. I worked at GW. I worked at VCU. And knock on wood, all blessings. I got back to Mason in 2017 at the career center. And that's it. I mean, I think I just really enjoyed from that internship, I just really enjoyed working on a college campus and learning.
Carrie:When you said that the kind of the light bulb went off and you said you wanted to do that when he spoke to your cohort, you had also mentioned you didn't utilize career services as an undergraduate student. So what do you think kind of made that light bulb go off? Like what attracted you to that when you heard about it?
Phil:The light bulb because I was like, man, I could have used this for myself. I love learning about it. I love learning about the intersection of your identity with your career. I loved all those theories, like Browns values, like how values align with your careers. I love learning about strengths. I was like, man, I could have used all this stuff. It was when I took all the other classes like, oh, that's cool. Carl Jung, all these theories about, you know, Freudian theories all like the ego and all that. I was like, okay, that's cool. But when I got to that career counseling class, I was like, this is it. I love it. I mean, I'm listening to podcasts. I love talking about careers. I love the narrative one. There was a theory where it's like, have the client tell you a story, narrative based theory. Like I would just nerd out on anything that was related to career. Yeah, and I was like, that's it. I wanna do that. I wanna do career stuff. I loved the JMU College experience and a campus vibe. There's something about the ecosystem of a college to me that just I vibe off of. I love it. It's like the diversity of thought. I love. I don't know, just the buildings. It makes you feel smarter when you're on a college campus. it was like almost like the environment of college was something I really enjoy as well, you know?
Carrie:Yeah. I think people who really love learning and really have a passion for education, just being in that environment where people are striving to make a difference and to do that all the time and to help students is just, there's definitely something special about that environment for sure.
Phil:For sure. So when I graduated in 2012, I mean, I think ideally I wanted to work in the very niche career centers of college, right? Mm-hmm. but you know, those jobs are limited. So my mindset was if I apply and just stay in the education realm, Then eventually I can get myself and pivot back to career services.
Carrie:Which a lot of people do that, right? They work in admissions, they work in advising, they work in res life. Like there's all kinds of ways. Yeah, totally. So what did you do?
Phil:Yeah, you was about to hit on it. Yeah. I worked in financial aid, I worked in admissions and then I did work in career services. So I just knew that as long as I had a touchpoint in education, especially a touchpoint in higher ed, that I could pivot and get back career services in some form or fashion.
Carrie:And understanding what roles those other services play and learning how they work. I mean, there's so much benefit to understanding more than one wheelhouse, so to speak, you know, on a campus. And then you can form relationships with those people and you can also just help students more effectively, I think, when you understand multiple offices.
Phil:Yes, a hundred percent.
Carrie:Yeah, totally. So within career services, do you have some kind of favorite conversations you like to have with students or favorite resources that you like to refer people to on a regular basis? For students sitting here listening who maybe haven't visited their career services that really want to seek out more things to think about and more resources to check out. Do you have some favorites to share?
Phil:Yeah, so, in my current role now, I pivoted like just over the summer I've moved away from serving students to solely employee relations. Which has been a new transition for me. But that was just recently. So I've had about five or six years with the student services part, you know, meeting students. I think my last role was actually half students, half employers. So I had two hats in that space before I switched. But, I think the one things I love to talk about the students was particularly the assessments, you know, the strong interest inventory, the NBTI, the Clifton strengths finder. And those things where you use the difference between assessment and test, it doesn't give you a right or wrong answer. It's just a tool to do some exploration. So I encourage any student if they have access to those assessments to take'em and just kind of figure yourself out. I taught a couple times the university career classes because I liked where it was. You didn't get to just see the student once you take the cohort through career development. And so if your campus has one of those career development, one or two credit classes to get an easy A, I encourage students to take that because it's almost like you get to do it in a group and feed off each other. I think those are also tremendous opportunities. Another thing is just the one-on-one coaching relationships. If you can have opportunities to do that, and support someone and get like someone that supports you and kind of brainstorms with you on a one-on-one level, I think is totally just a great tool. I love building that one-on-one relationship too when I was doing student facing appointments. So yeah, those would be some of the resources that I think most universities that do have career centers may have access to at least one of those things. I.
Carrie:Yeah, and regarding the assessments and getting to know yourself in that way, you know, whether you're doing it through assessments or talking with someone, or even just being honest with yourself and sitting down. Right. I just think that's such an important thing for students to think about. Cuz sometimes we get stuck. You start a path. and some students kind of get stuck thinking, well, I've already started this path, so I should just finish it. Even if they have start to have that gut feeling like this doesn't feel right anymore. Or this doesn't really interest me in the way that I thought. Or there's a parental expectation perhaps that they should complete a particular path. Can you talk a little bit about, just from what you've seen within yourself and talking to students over the years, just the importance of getting to know yourself and being honest about that, and true to that as you're considering your career options.
Phil:Yeah, I tell people that step one, before you look outward, look within. It's almost like the full thing. Know your skills. Know your strengths. Know yourself, self-awareness first. Then you can actually be thoughtful and targeted in regards to networking or applying or building your skills, whatever. And so now if I look at my, I mean, obviously my assessment has changed a little bit. You know, your values change a little bit. Sometimes there's not drastic changes, but like if you were to take your N B T I every five years, it might change a little bit, but it wouldn't be drastic. And your strengths kind of stay consistent as well, cuz they're natural, right? The things that you naturally feel like you're good at. And so I could take that assessment right now and look at it and say, wow, even with all the different pivots that I've done in my career, These still are valid. They still have validity. They still are my guiding lights. You know, I'm an extrovert. Well, okay, make sure that my next move, regardless of what it is, has me involved with connecting with people. One of my strengths is winning others over. That's the strengths. So make sure that, at least in every job, I have some form of engaging new people and winning people over in outreach. I can still hold those values, those skills, those strengths. I can still use those assessments even as I pivot to my next move and see, knowing myself, is it aligned with the next step? I tell my students every time, I'm not gonna help you figure out what to do with the rest of your life. I can't even do what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna help you make the most informed, best decision for your next steps. Life is about a bunch of next steps, not the whole picture. Just making really informed decisions. Almost like that. Pick your own book adventure. You gonna say A and b, left or right? You go with A, and then when you're there, it's another decision, A and B. And you just keep on doing that for the rest of your life, right? Yeah. That's like, it's life is a pick your own adventure. And you're gonna just land. And when you get to chapter 80 of that life book, you're gonna end up somewhere completely different than you thought. But at least when you get to that A and B, slow yourself down. Assess what is best for you right there, what makes you, you know, what aligns with your stuff, lines with you. And then make the best decision. And either or A and B, not none of those decisions are gonna be perfect. Yeah, I can always say, I went A, and I regret some things that I should have done and gone B, it's too late now. Take it for what it is, reassess, and then make another A and B decision and just keep on doing that for the rest of your life. I say that in a sense that at least. Know yourself before you make that A and B decision. So do you feel at least better about it?
Carrie:Be honest with yourself about it. Like I think there's a lot of people that feel pressure to conform to what they think an industry expects them to be or to what they think a certain work culture or company wants them to be. And so they're not necessarily honest with themselves or in an interview about that. Why put yourself in a space under this false identity, that you know is not really you? Like, be who you are and find a place where you can give everything you can in the most genuine way, because that's gonna not only fulfill you the best, but it'll also serve your industry or your students, or your company, or your clients or whoever it is best.
Phil:Yeah, And you're still, I was like A or B, right? If you make that A or B, at least you're making a step forward. That's all that matters, right? Like, okay, I talked to people, I did my informational interviews. I may like this field. I go and try it out. I don't really like it. Do some more informational interviews, learn some different skills, make another decision, and that's okay. I think that's how, like in my book, the book of Philip Wilkerson, the most random person in the world, I've learned over time, some of it was impulsivity and just being open, but I've learned over time that there's still a core to that flexibility, adaptability. Just openness and I actually have, you know, trying to practice what I preach. I've just learned a little bit more over time. I'm still gonna pivot. I'm still gonna make an A or B decision. I'm just now at my 38 years of living, I'm just gonna be a little bit More prepared and more researched. I'll do my informational interviews a little bit better. I'll gather some research. I'll see if this aligns with my skill, strengths and stuff a little bit more before I make the decision. Because I'm gonna tell you like a concrete example. I got into the PhD program in communication. If you notice my journey, I stopped going to school. I mean, I've completed my master's in 2012. This is 10 years later to make this decision, and this wasn't on a whim. I did not just randomly wake up one day this time say, you know what? I'm just going to apply for a PhD.
Carrie:Yeah, let's not do that on a whim.
Phil:No, I didn't this time. I the opposite. I mean, I think I've been marinade on this decision to even just apply for two years. I did my informational interviews. I talked to the faculty of that program before I applied. I talked to alum. I reached out to people on LinkedIn and said, can you tell me about your experience in this graduate program? I looked it up on, on LinkedIn, what could you do with this degree? I practice what I preached a little bit. Yeah, yeah. I love that. About what skills I needed to be successful, so, I still made an ab pivot when someone asked me, what do you wanna do with this? I don't know that yet. Like, I don't know the end of the road, but at least for this decision of just to apply, I was more informed.
Carrie:And you're making that step forward that you talked about. I mean, getting a PhD. Is a step forward. Obviously, that can help you in so many different ways. I know you and I talked about this before, but can you share with everybody a little bit about why you chose communications and why that's a field people should think about? We've talked about this, on my podcast in several other episodes, just about the field of communications. There's so many things that you can do with that and how that can be beneficial really across the board. I mean, every single industry needs people who are strong in communications in some capacity. So can you talk a little bit about your thought process and what led you to the decision to earn your degree in communications?
Phil:It was my experiences leading up to it. Was that drive and interest. It was that what made me nerd out a little bit more. So, for instance, I had a podcast for five years, so I was already dabbling in media and social media content, and I was always gravitating toward that. And then I joined Toastmasters at Mason, which is a public speaking group, and I was just gravitated to the form of public speaking as a mode of communication. As I said earlier, everyone that I talked to, the professors of that program were just so nice. It was once again, it was more so like, if these are the people that are in that program or these are the professors, then, you know, they're all good people and I really aligned with them and I was reading what they were doing, you know, the research they were putting out about reputation management and all that. I was like, all the classes that I read on the course catalog sound interesting to me. And so my decision, my rationale was I could definitely get a degree in education again in higher ed. But then my thought process was if I stay in higher ed, Having a PhD regardless of the discipline is fine. That's check that box. So I can get a PhD in education. Or on the other end, then maybe I can branch out into a new field of field of industry and be a subject matter expert in communication. So it almost kind of goes back to that. Undergrad history thing where I was like, at least I will enjoy the process of learning if I enjoy the subject, and then as a result of the career outcome, I could still be okay in my current industry of education, or I could pivot. So that was my rationale in communication. As you said, every organization needs, you know, maybe I could work for an organization that needs a communication specialist or something. Yeah. Or I could just stay in education and be a dean or something. I don't know. And yeah, I don't only seeing these out. I'm making this up. It's like at least I'm in this educational space that allows me flexibility to pivot. Either stay in academia or transition to an industry that at least holds my interest.
Carrie:Yeah. There's a couple of points you made that I just wanna highlight, and one is to look at the research that the faculty are doing in the area that you're looking in, because that will speak a lot to who those people are and the types of opportunities you may have and the types of things that they're gonna teach, like that's so important to look at. It's not that you have to totally on board, a hundred percent with everybody what they're doing. But like, it gives you, it gives you a really interesting perspective of the department that you're entering. And then the actual classes and the degree plan. I, I just continue to be blown away by people who don't look at that because, you know, if you're walking into whatever degree it is, undergrad, masters, PhD program, you're gonna spend the next x number of years of your life sitting in those classes, reading textbooks or other resources, articles on those subjects, you're gonna have to really dig deep into those courses. And if you look at the curriculum and none of those things light you up very much, or you look at the degree plan, it's just like, Ugh, I don't wanna spend the next few years of my life studying this stuff. Then perhaps consider something else that you can also utilize. Cuz I think a lot of us think, oh, I'm in this industry. Like higher Ed's a good example. Oh, I'm in higher ed. I should go get a doctorate in higher ed something. Well, not necessarily. I mean you could, but there's other options. And so I think a lot of people in their industry think, oh, I need to get the degree that has this label on it because that's what I'm supposed to do, or that's what everybody does. But if you look at that curriculum specifically and that doesn't get you excited or you don't wanna spend your time doing that, there are other options that you can correlate to what you're doing or perhaps even give you greater opportunity.
Phil:A hundred percent. And I'll say one more too. There's another practicing when I preach about values too. I'm a father, I'm a husband, work life balance. And so, you know, I was dabbling. I was like, man, maybe it'd be cool to get a degree in industrial psychology. But IO psych was not Adult family friendly because all the classes are during the day and they expect people of that program to be like full-time students. Shout out to the Mason com program. Their program was geared toward the working learner. You know, like regardless of levels, like all the classes are at night because they.
Carrie:Yeah, that's huge.
Phil:They wanted people that wanted to dive into communication, and still continue to work or apply it to their work. So that was a driver, you know, for me. Like, wow, I need to still work. I still need to have a full-time job and maybe be a part-time student. That's one of my values. One of my values is I cannot be a full-time student in this space. I had to provide financially for my family, you know, and just have that, and that's good. And I, I will say this, one thing I did like about the concentration of professors too, is that there was two tracks, strategic communication and health. Mason is really probably one of the leaders in health communications in a nation. And guess what they coined? Wellbeing. Whether it's not just health, like physical health, communication or disease or CDC communi, that's wellbeing as well. I read some of the research like, Susie Carmack, shout out to her. But you know, they did research on like yoga and mindfulness and how do you communicate that? And wellness and wellbeing, and I was like, Positive Philter, wellbeing. I love studying that stuff. I was studying wellbeing on my own. So I could actually have a dissertation or project related to communication. That was kind of already done in this program. They, they supported. Yeah. So I was like, man, it was just, I don't know, man. I'm really excited. You know, I'm taking one class. I tell my mantra, my mantra is one class at a time, but bare minimum, knock on wood. The first class I'm taking is with Ed Mayback. And I'll say this, I didn't know it. Like I, he's cool. Come to find out this at day back is like one of the leaders in a nation in climate control communication. Like he's a big dog in the field. And he literally is one of the most friendly professors ever. And in the class is so nice. So there's also a value, I'm gonna tell students this right now. There's also a value to your gut feeling about how people are as people too. Are they friendly, are they warm, are they welcoming? I had two years to investigate that with this comm program that everyone I interacted with, cuz I interacted with them through my normal job as a career advisor. Yeah. Everyone in that comp program I rocked with, they were just all nice. All the teachers invited me to do classroom presentations. That was one of my values. Am I gonna be surrounded by people that are just kind and friendly and encouraging during this learning process? Knock on wood, so far, first class, hundred percent. It's that way.
Carrie:Love it. One thing we have talked about before quite a bit is mentorship, and you talk a lot about that on your podcast, too. That comes up quite a bit. So can you talk a little bit about the importance of mentorship in your life, and then also how you encourage students to seek out mentors in their life?
Phil:Yeah. Reach one, teach one. We're not in this process alone. I read a book called Tribal Mentors and that's just my, I love that term cause I believe I have a tribe mentors as well, you know, just people that have guided me in just many different spaces of my life, whether it's fatherhood, being a member of Alpha, this PhD process, careers, all that stuff. I learned early that people are the greatest resource on this earth. And I mean that, not in a way, but I mean that in a intellectual and social capital way of just sharing ideas and learning. I learn a lot from learning by doing, but also learning from seeing others do. And so mentorship is that for me, you know, seeing people that are doing things that I like to do and kind of just learning and getting guidance from that. But then I also believe that because others have done that so well, for me, that I have a responsibility to do that for others. I still don't feel like I'm there, you know, like it's so crazy to see.
Carrie:Do we ever, though? I mean, there's always that feeling.
Phil:People claim me as a mentor, and like, Hey Phil, I look up to you. I'm like, who? Are you serious? I'm like, I'm trying to figure out myself. But I just really believe it. Reach one, teach one. You know, and pay it forward. I'm just so grateful for those that have been able to guide me or mentor me. I'm always open to doing that for other people, whether that's an informal way or a formalized way. And I think there's space for both, you know, like formalized means like a real mentorship match program where you know, you sign up and they match you or just informally someone that just gravitated to you and they just stay in touch with you over time. I have. For me as well. I've utilized formalized mentorship programs and just reached out to people and over time we just built a relationship and so I just really appreciate that. It's been a great resource and a lot of those, that decision, the A to B decisions, Part of my research when I make those pivots, part of my research is just connecting with people, my mentors. And they help me make, like I said, no perfect decisions, but they help me make more well informed decisions during those AB pivots.
Carrie:So as you look back over your journey, what is some big picture advice that you have for students? What are some things that you've learned over your journey, or that you've just seen so much in other students that you've worked with that you would want to share with students?
Phil:All right, so I'm a, I'm gonna shout out my recently deceased father-in-law. You know, he just passed away.
Carrie:I'm sorry.
Phil:I'm gonna speak at his service. And these are the three lessons that he taught me. But I think now they're actually applicable to this situation. That's why I thought of this. So, number one, prioritize relationships. Make sure that you prioritize your relationships that are important to you. Family, friends, mentors, whatever. Keep in touch. Water them. You know, almost your relationships are like plants, you know, water them, maintain them, cuz the more that you take care of them and nurture them just randomly in life, they just give you fruit, come back to you whether it's a new job, opportunities or just make you know your wellbeing. I would always tell anyone students regard, water your relationships. The ones that are meaningful to you, and those will yield those opportunities that you're thinking about. Also just make you feel good about where you are in your mental space. Yeah. Number two, have difficult conversations. I think even those ones transparently with yourself. You spoke earlier about having, parents that tell you they want you to do this and that well maybe have a really those difficult conversations about them. But before you go into those difficult conversations about money and school and all that, just equip yourself. If you're gonna have these difficult conversations about your life and what you wanna do, then do the research. I always tell students, parents may have the anxiety about you getting a job. Thus they tell you to be a doctor, lawyer, a bust. But if you can concretely say, mom, dad, you know, I did my research. This is what I'm good at. This is what I'm good at. This is what I'm interested in. This is my next step. As I said earlier, like my next informed step. That I'm gonna try my best. I'm gonna go to New York and be that starving artist, but I got money and this is why I'm doing it, and how am I gonna audition? And I put some time into this. I'm not just randomly packing up my bags and moving to New York City. I'm really serious about this decision, but I have all this laid out. They might still be apprehensive, but they'll rock with it a little bit more because you did it. So have those difficult conversations, but bring information to them, you know? And I think the more you talk about it, the more you have difficult conversations, the more people know where you're about, know what you are, and ideally will support you. So that's number two. And then third lesson that I learned from my father-in-law that I think is applicable to this is have a career with purpose and passion. You know, my father-in-law worked in non-profit for anti hunger and healthcare advocacy for everybody. Eventually money came and he made a decent living. But he didn't make big bucks early in his career. And that's what he always told me. But he was very passionate about what he was doing and he put it in and he was just growing and became eventually A top dog and in those industries and known in the industry, when I say industry known in the non-profit world, in the advocacy world, for the work that he did. And that's because he didn't chase dollars. He chased a purpose and a passion and something that he really wanted. He wanted people to have a better situation in regards to food insecurity and equitable healthcare for everyone. And that was something that when he thought he was doing the work, he thought he was contributing to the greater good, as they say. You could look back on his career and he's told me this. He's like, I feel like I could have done more. The needle didn't move as much as I wanted it to, but through the process he was doing work, you know, and he felt good about it and he was fired up about it. And so that would be my next one. Find something that fires you up. Because eventually, I guess money will come, or sustainable living will come, hopefully. But at the end of the day, like you'll put in the work. If you care about the work you're doing, you'll put in the work that you'll become good at it. And when you're good at what you're doing, you feel good about yourself. If you go to a job and you feel like, man, I know to lay the land, I know what I'm doing. I mean, that's just a confidence filler, you know. I would hate to go to a job every day and I just know I'm bad at it and it doesn't fill me up. It's just a life sucker, energy sucker. And so those are three things I took him from my father-in-law, but I think it's very applicable to this podcast. And those are just things that I have to like almost practice what I preach to myself. Am I watering my relationships? Am I having these difficult conversations being transparent? And am I really just chasing purpose and passion throughout these, you know, different opportunities? And I think ideally I can actually say yes at this moment for a lot of those things. Yeah. And reasses later.
Carrie:Yeah. That's awesome. It helps you sleep at night too, right? Well, and I think that last point you made, I heard somebody say once, and I wish I remembered where I saw this or heard this or read this, but that either, you know, there's people who need to have work where they are passionate about it and they are fulfilled in their work, and then there's people who need to work to fuel their passion or they, you know, they need some kind of particular kind of job to allow them to do the other thing, whether it's at night or the weekend or you know, whatever their schedule is. And so I think part of that is figuring out which person you are. I mean, I have friends who have a nine to five who they're not passionate about it. They know that that's the job they need during the day to be able to do this other thing that they are passionate about or to be able to live a particular life that is really important to them. So it's important to figure that out about yourself. Cuz I think you and I are both people who we need to have work that's meaningful to us. And if we don't, That does suck our soul, and that's gonna impact our life in a negative way. But there are people who aren't like that, but they need this other thing. So it's important to sit down with yourself and figure out. What are you, you know, in that regard, what do you need. Because you need something that fulfills you, right? Is that your work? Does it need to be your work? Can it be your work? And if not, you know, then what can you do to still make sure that that's in your life, that you don't lose sight of the things that are important to you, even if they aren't part of your work. But I think also sometimes people assume that they can't have certain things in their work. When really they are out there and they can. So it just takes a little bit more to figure out how to do that and seek that out.
Phil:hundred percent. Totally agree. Shout out to you. Shout out to this podcast. I think this is a great repository, your podcast, to listen about other careers. I love it. Big fan. And like I said, you know, Feel free to reach out to me, DM me, listen to my podcast. Positive Philter.
Carrie:Phil, can you tell us how we can find you?
Phil:Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn, Philip Wilkerson III. I'm open to connecting with people on LinkedIn and then you could just follow my podcast, which is positive philter. The filter is spelled with a pH cause I think I'm clever. And that's everything at Positive Philter. Instagram at Positive Philter, Twitter, at Positive Philter that there's a Facebook page. If you want any advice on podcasting or any of this stuff, feel free to hit me up. I'm always open to connecting and supporting and collaborating and all that.
Carrie:I can confirm that, and I have loved connecting with you and chatting with you. I just think you're such a light and such a positive, just a positive light that you're putting out there, and I'm excited for you and all that you're doing, and I am looking forward to being in touch with you over time and seeing where you land, especially after your phD and seeing what, what path you end up taking and hopefully we can circle back and check in with you and see where you're at with that. But thank you so much for being so open to share with students and having such a heart to serve students and putting yourself out there in that way. I think that's awesome and I love connecting with other people in higher education who do that.
Phil:Excellent. Well thank you so much. Great podcast and I appreciate you very much.
Carrie:Thank you, Phil.
Do you know someone I should interview? Please DM me on Instagram@pathsinprogresspodcast and let me know who I should talk to. I would love to hear about how these stories are impacting your journey. Please follow Paths in Progress wherever you download your podcasts and leave a review to let me know what you think. You can also follow us on Facebook and LinkedIn at Paths in Progress Podcast. Our music is by John Grimmett and the artwork is by Edgar Alanis. Thanks again for joining me today.